Um… My grandma installed Windows 11 on her computer and then ran a simple script I gave her after. You guys are delusional.
oh damn that sucks, thats why you dont click suspicious links
Was it a script to install your own crypto miner?
Arch is probably easier to install than Debian nowadays.
No.
Debian takes a few clicks and you have a working desktop.
Installing regular Windows 10/11 is definitely more than twice as painful than installing Debian 12.
Once, I was trying to install Windows 10 and wasted an entire day! The installation would systematically fail at the beginning of the installation with a BS error message that doesn’t give any hint about what’s going wrong. In the end it just didn’t like USB3 as an installation media! I reflashed it to a USB2 and it worked, but OMG was it super slow ! It took literally hours to install !!!
Debian, even as a noobie, you’ll go from flashing your ISO to a booted system within an hour. If you’ve done it once before, you will get it done in 20 minutes.
It works over USB 3.0, it sounds like you just have a broken or corrupt drive.
What the hell. I’ve never seen such an issue. Microsoft is so considerate; they provide us with cool little surprises like that from time to time. ♥️
I’ve seen it a lot (I do PC builds/repairs as a side gig). I just assume it will cause me grief from the start and keep both USB2 and USB3 sticks handy.
To be fair I’ve had the issue with Unraid too, but only on one brand’s B450 motherboards in my testing. I didn’t have a whole bunch to try of course but MSI and Asus was fine, Gigabyte not. X570 didn’t have this problem in my experience.
I love Debian, but it’s installer is shit.
It really is, I can use it, but it’s clunky compared to even Arch’s TUI. Gentoo is harder, but Gentoo isn’t trying to do what Debian is.
Another bad one is Fedora’s. I’m used to it, of course, but the placement of the buttons to exit screens is all over the fuck, and you better know what you’re doing in order to even set the hostname and make a user during install.
It’s one of the only installers that seems to take the longest compatatively and (afaik) doesn’t really let you leave it unaftended. Most other distros let you just set everything first then go, but Debian does that and then asks you what DE and other questions mid install…
I’m not familiar with Mint and I only installed Fedora twice/on two baremetal PCs … but how much easier can you go compared to Debian?
Is it like a cleaner UI or more preinstalled essentials?if you are already using fedora I don’t see any value in switching to debian or mint.
Windows requires pressing next 12 times, what are you people smoking and can I haz?
See, Ubuntu only requires pressing next 6 times, and Fedora is only 8.
That’s essentially what it boils down to nowadays.
Unless you want tpm backed full disk encryption in which case… Good luck
One click for Mac and windows, a lifetime of fun for Linux (except arch w/sysdboot which works pretty good)
I’m happy with regular password FDE, i think i’m more likely to encounter hardware failure (and then need to read the drive from another machine) than theft of the drive.
It’s a good point though, I’m sure many people do need this feature. Ubuntu is “working on it” but so far i guess it’s mostly not working
I have a media center that serves over the internet via VPN, I don’t want to leave it unencrypted but I also don’t want to have to go home and type in a pass every time California has a power outage, which is monthly during the dry fire season and >monthly during the “storm” season. I wouldn’t care as much for my personal laptop or anything, but for servers it seems like an absolute must have and…what is Linux for if not servers?
I think the traditional way to do that is via dm-crypt, which you can set up with an ssh server.
You can also use a network-shared file rather than a password for LUKS but it’s not as straightforward to set up as a password. If you are doing something like tailscale then it’d be unlocked as long as you are on the VPN
Typing in a password in-person at a data center would be a huge hassle, agreed
But…it’s literally what the tpm chip is for. Like there may be other options, but the tpm chip’s purpose in life is to do this thing. And it’s been doing that for a decade. Seems pretty traditional to me. But Linux folks in some venues treat it like a plague that needs to be eradicated.
Looking at RHEL docs it seems to also work there. The same instructions probably work in Fedora but idk I’ve never done it myself
But then you have to wait 45 minutes for Windows update to spin, and potentially hang in the middle
Is it difficult for you to wait?
No, that’s fair. Annoying but not difficult.
With a MS account. Which spies on everything and sells your info.
Oobe\bypassnro
Thank me later
Or just use software that you don’t need to mod to do what you want. That’s easier.
Literally not a mod
Do I think needing to do this is fucking stupid? Yes
Do I still put up with Microsoft’s bullshit because Linux is actively worse (as a parallel Linux user)? also fucking yes
I’ve been asking for several years for anything remotely resembling proof of this.
Will you be the first person to actually provide it? (I swear to fucking god if you link me to the terms of use…)
How do you think they advertise to you in the search bar?
They don’t? Very first thing I turn off is that shit show of a function.
However, let’s imagine you’re someone who leaves that on even though it objectively sucks…the answer is cookies. Your spyware example is cookies.
What is the very first thing you do after installing the super private and much sekure Linux? You download Steam and give Valve your data. This is bullshit.
So is Microsoft
Yes, that’s my point. You will eventually log into something when using the computer. So while it’s weird that MS made it mandatory to sign into Windows 11, who cares.
They can also get your data without an account if they wanted.
On Linux, you can install Steam inside a sandbox for better security. Easy to do with either Flatpak or Bubblejail. This makes it so that Steam does not have full file system access.
Not something most people are gonna do. If you need privacy and security on the level where even Steam worries you, Windows can be made private too. It’s not even that hard. You just install a different ISO that allows local accounts and do all the necessary tweaks to harden it.
Flatpak is installed on basically every Linux distribution. Literally all I do to install Steam is go to the Software Center and search “steam” and click install. It takes 2 clicks.
You know that Steam is run on Arch right?
Use Rufus, skip online account and automatically opt out of telemetry.
There’s also a number of things you have to click “no” on, like a free trial office or Onedrive.
It took me around an hour to set up my new Win 11 laptop, most of which was downloading and installing updates. I expected far worse.
The updates often do take many times the install time which can be a bit frustrating, though it is an area being worked on: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/windows-itpro-blog/introducing-windows-11-checkpoint-cumulative-updates/4182552
Oh please, we spend an hour fucking around in a new Linux install to get things the way we like them too.
Thaaaaank you for being the fucking voice of reason
I would argue it takes even longer to get a windows install how I like it. Even using Chris Titus Tech’s tool, it probably takes 2 hours for me to install things like winget, steam, librewolf, libreoffice, blender and configure the task bar and lock screen. Not to mention how last time I checked, I could not rebind the windows key to trigger the app overview how I like it.
How often are you installing windows? I deploy probably 7-8 a week. I can have an image usable without telemetry in 10 minutes.
I seldom install windows, so I also have to relearn some things during the debloat. At 10 minutes, you are basically speedrunning the windows installation process lol.
That’s not windows tho, that’s setting up your entire fucking digital life to your satisfaction. The meme is about like, going to the task bar and telling Microsoft “no this isnt just a shitty gnome, please use my entire monitor”
For everything else just use winget-ui and install everything you want
How I want a windows install is “working, with no BS”.
It comes out the box working, all I needed to do was disable Onedrive on boot. I haven’t even bothered to change the background, and probably won’t.
A new Linux installation is usually usable and you spend an hour tailoring it to your specific needs. While in a new Windows installation I spend the first hour remembering things that’ll start popping up/executing in the background and disabling them just to get it to a usable state.
Just learn how to install windows the way you want it to be just like you learn the best way to install a distro. Debloated windows takes minutes to install and takes so little actual effort if you know what you’re doing.
I probably cannot get Windows to be the way I like it. They make every change I want to make a pain, and the ways to circumvent their shenanigans are always changing. Setting up a local account, changing your default browser, stopping onedrive from wasting your time, all of these should be quick and simple changes, but they just wouldn’t let you choose for yourself, they have to shove their products and settings down your throat with every new installation, update, and misclick. I spent more than an hour setting up a new installation and I still find new ways Edge can start itself, I cannot imagine the time it would take for me to make this as usable as a simple Linux installation with some changes to the DE.
All of these changes you list can be achieved in a couple of clicks.
Don’t know what you are smoking my dude.
At some point changing the default browser required setting each file type’s default app one by one. Using a local account once was a normal option then it became hidden and required setting up some questions then you had to disconnect from Wi-Fi and now it’s not a visible option and you have to get around it with some command. This may take you some clicks when you’ve already installed Windows before, but it’s heading towards simply not being an option, and setting up a usable Linux installation is already much easier today.
No, see: some of us spend countless hours setting up their NixOS config repo, which is totally worth it because you save half an hour when moving to a new machine
And downloading updates is a good thing. Means that the fresh installation isn’t vulnerable to something that was fixed between when the USB / DVD was pressed and the time the person installed it.
Stupid list leaves off the most popular linux install and puts that fringe one in.
The windows one seems exaggerated until you try to set it up with a regular local account.
Setting up a scratch install VM is such a pain.
Yeah, setup win 10 install on qemu may need to jump some hoop, especually when you want to enable features like gpu pass through.
Although qemu may not be as easy as virtualbox/vmware, the performance is worth it.
Setting up a local user account only is easy. Shift+f10 to open command prompt and then run OOBE\BYPASSNRO and then you can run the setup with zero network requirements and zero account requirements.
That no longer works.
Tried it on my girlfriend’s new gaming laptop about 4 months ago and it did nothing, so just went back to using my custom Rufus install.
With Rufus it doesn’t even ask for a MS account, indeed.
I do it every day for work. You must be doing something wrong.
All these threads make me want to take the leap to Linux. My work laptop runs on Mint, but as for my home pc… guess I’ll still have to wait for more Proton development/compatibility. Last time I checked, part of the games I want to play soon (Remnant 2, Supervive, Legion TD 2, Morimens, Sengoku Dynasty, Ravenswatch and a few others) seem to seem to imply a little more experimentation than I’d like.
Don’t get me wrong, as a modder of obscure Chinese games and at work, I’m all for experimenting. But for the 1h per day I can play, I’ll wait until I’m quite sure I won’t spend it tinkering around to get my current games to work.
But I sure hope it will be sooner than later!
I have heard of absolutely none of those games. Looking at protondb, it’s a mixed bag of miscellaneous hassle. Supervive actually has a message that reads “wine, proton, and steam deck are not supported by this application”. Legion TD seems like you have to pray to RNG-sus. Dynasty has no reports at all… For the issues people are having with some of these, aside from supervive just blocking wine entirely, it is indeed more janky tinkering than I could justify doing myself, let alone expecting anyone else to.
All these toxic community threads do is push me away from Linux before I become as insufferable as them.
Windows has its flaws, but at least it doesn’t have an annoying fanbase.
Lol it’s not that hard. It’s just a matter of what you are used to.
Why do all my homies use Linux Mint while I use Ubuntu?
Cinnamon is nice. But then I meet KDE…
Honestly, if you’re happy with Ubuntu, don’t worry about what other people think. A lot of the (valid) complains of Ubuntu require research to understand why to be outraged.
I personally only use immutable now (bazite, aurora and steam OS) and I wouldn’t have it any other way now.
Because you’re wrong?
Personally I don’t like snaps, is the main thing.
I don’t like Snaps either, but it isn’t a that big of a deal. Ubuntu is still vastly more private than Windows. I do prefer Fedora much more because it actually sandboxes system services with SELinux polices. Snap creates a better sandbox for applications than Flatpak, but it is slower to launch applications, depends on AppArmor (which is less secure than SELinux), and uses hard coded package repo (centralized design).
The comment I replied to wasn’t comparing Ubuntu vs. Windows though, it was Ubuntu vs. Mint.
If my options were Ubuntu, Windows, and Mac, I’d go with Ubuntu, no question. But the nice thing about Linux is that there are a billion options, I can use what I like, other people can use what they like, and we can all play nice together and even contribute to the same codebase half the time.
I’ve tried Fedora-- every time I install a new machine, I end up trying several distros before inevitably landing on something with
apt. I started on Ubuntu 15ish years ago, and run Debian on anything headless, I just can’t get used to other package managers
What are snaps?
A container format for programs, similar to Flatpak and Appimage. Snaps were developed by Canonical, and while they’re technically an open standard, the only place to get them is from Canonical themselves, so it’s sort of a walled-garden thing like phone app stores. Snaps tend to be slower than native packages, and Ubuntu installs the snap version of things by default.
Mint is extremely similar to (and based on) Ubuntu, but with snaps gutted out. There are other differences, but that’s the biggest one
Thanks. I will google container format.
That Google search will likely get you results related to multimedia formats, like ogg, webm, and matroska.
The more useful query would be ‘containerized software packaging’. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(software) is the link for snaps though, and it should be easy to find other containerized formats from there, Flatpak is probably in the ‘see also’ section
They might simply like Mint’s Cinnamon over Ubuntu’s GNOME. That’s a valid choice.
Cinnamon with Wayland is still in testing. X11/X.Org is unmaintained software and is less secure than Wayland. GNOME is the only desktop at the moment that actually protects the screen from arbitrary recording by applications. Just food for thought.
Plasma supports wayland as well. On distros where it doesn’t ship by default all you have to do is install a package.
Snap is hot garbage, and Mint is Ubuntu without Snap, so much better.
I’m going to switch to Mint from Ubuntu because I don’t trust Canonical, I would rather have the community controlling the distribution.
Interesting. I will Google “what is canonical”
Canonical is the manufacturer of Ubuntu.
Ahh interesting. Does someone else manufacture mint?
Mint is fully community-owned which is why I’m interested in it, I don’t want companies dictating and controlling how the OS should work.
Hobbyist here, in my opinion reading the manual or the wiki is easy, understanding it quickly is not. You can obvioulsy follow the instructions blindly and still succeed.
For the most part is very comprehensive but sometimes you are left alone to connect the dots which is very daunting when instructions get technical and you do not understand them.
In the end it felt like one of those half semester courses Universities try to cram in.
Installing windows takes stupidly long. You have to click through 60 pages and click “No, i don’t want to share my data” just for them to collect it anyway
Installing a debloated Windows takes 15 minutes if you know what you are doing.
The only thing you need to wait on is installing updates.
I’m pretty sure it’s less than 10, and I just recently set up a Windows machine.
Who installs an unmodified installer package? That’s just silly. Setup your installer using Rufus or something similar and this is not an issue.
I’ve never “debloated” Windows so idk about the top half.
The bottom half is accurate. Debian, Fedora, and Mint are easier to install than Windows 10 or 11. Not that Windows is difficult, it’s just a bit clunky and idiosyncratic.
I assume Microsoft doesn’t care much about the installer since it’s generally only used by OEMs, whereas for Linux distros it’s a first impression so it has to be polished.
I had to install Windows 11 on something a few weeks ago so I decided to do it without an account, it was nowhere near as difficult to do it as this sub would lead you to believe. Pressed a key combination to load up the command prompt then typed in a relatively short command. The GUI restarted and that was it.
Yeh, it’s there.
But Linux installers would straight up ask you. So you don’t even need to hit the CLI
No excuse though. Try the “install as oem” of Linux Mint. You get an install with temporary oem account, you can update the system, install additional programs, then click “Prepare for shipping to end user” and on next boot you’re greeted with a setup screen.
That sounds pretty nice. More installers should have something like that
It’s very user friendly. I switched last year and haven’t looked back. I game on it constantly.
Well, if you want accuracy, then no the meme isn’t really that accurate.
On an updated Win11 system the Shift+ F10 command prompt “OOBE\BYPASSNRO” trick still works to setup a new system without Internet (and by extension, without a MS account) so that’s like most of the battle right there
The rest is taken care of with your choice of debloat scripts that are out there
compared to clicking “next” on Fedora, Debian, or Mint
I’d say using a simple straightforward GUI is much easier than an arcane combination of commands and keypresses
Wait, did we just reach a point where a command line input is needed for Windows and Linux just needs to press a few buttons??
I can’t find it now, but there was a meme about that here. How 20 years ago vs present the two are flipped.
Well, I didn’t say it should be ranked towards the bottom lol, if we want to make this graph accurate it would be below arch but above “Windows the normal way”
If you install arch with the archinstall script you basically get a setup wizard
And installing a Microsoft-account-free Windows install is only the first step of de-bloating the system. So I’d say debloated Windows in somewhere between Arch and Gentoo
I think i misunderstood you my bad
I used AtlasOS on my windows partition. Had to cause for some reason steam streaming was borked and would only black screen. And now I’m too lazy to swap back over to cachyos. Lmao. Waiting to see that bug is fixed.
i seriously do not understand what’s up with some of you, why do you spell stuff like in “m$”. The extra work to type it like this doesn’t matter at all. It makes no difference, Microsoft will not shut down because you spelled their name as “micro$oft” on your lemmy post or something like that. why do you keep doing this, i don’t understand.
If I were to take a guess, it’s probably just a censorship joke. Censoring the word implies that it is inappropriate to say. Like when people say Fr*ench".
Nah, nothing to do with censorship.
More in the line of “Microsoft is a capitalist POS that only cares about money and doesn’t cater to my niche specific needs.” And they want to remind everyone every time they talk about Microsoft.
It’s literally one more keystrokes, and people who do it often in a phone probably have it autocomplete. This message took much longer to write than probably every single time the OP has written MS as M$.
