A little admiration of how easy UI customization is on Firefox, and how shitty Chromium looks.
I have no idea why people use #Chrome. #Firefox looks so much better,
Reason n1: Firefox’s font rending sucks; Reasons n2: Chrome dev tools are better and way more supported by whatever ecosystem you develop in.
Chrome dev tools are better and way more supported by whatever ecosystem you develop in.
But what if you’re not a web dev?
That’s fair, but I still wouldn’t trade the amazing font rendering that chromium offers.
For frameworks treating Chromium as app development platform like Android. Firefox dev tools are much better for typical web development.
Firefox dev tools are much better for typical web development.
Not true, not even close. That was true like 15-20 years ago, but nowadays, especially when I’m debugging Angular (yes the extension for chrome is better) and developing stuff that will be used by people who go for Chrome.
You say Angular. But what else can we expect for a framework for making WebKit/Chromium apps. Angular working in Firefox is an afterthought because it has very much similar featureset.
Try these settings on Firefox in about:config
gfx.font_rendering.cleartype_params.enhanced_contrast = 100
gfx.font_rendering.cleartype_params.pixel_structure = 5
gfx.font_rendering.cleartype_params.rendering_mode = 5
gfx.font_rendering.fallback.always_use_cmaps = trueI cannot use Firefox without them. They adjust the text rendering to be more… normal, I don’t understand why they aren’t default, but maybe things change at higher resolutions (but I don’t own a 2160p monitor to test).
Cleartype is not there on my Fedora Firefox on KDE?
I’ve accidentally fell into a Linux space, my bad! This will work on Windows, I’m not sure of alternatives on Linux, I gave up using it before I could play around with Firefox.
Try looking for aliasing options under gfx.font_rendering and trying them out.
Sooo you mean “Windows has horrible font rendering” ;D I think on KDE its fine, some say GNOME is better but idk.
No, Windows has good font rendering actually. It’s very much just a Firefox issue on Windows.
No offence, but I used to think Windows had good font rendering while I was using it. That was until I started using Linux distros. Now every time I boot into Windows, I again remember how awful Windows looks in comparison - washed out, pixelated, gives me eye strain…
never in my years of using Linux have I ever thought that it was rendered clearer. let’s be honest with ourselves, no need to lie.
Linux’s looks more blurry to me, Window’s is much sharper. Maybe at different resolutions it changes though, you need less aliasing at higher res.
That’s interesting… it makes a difference indeed.
Chrome dev tools are better for JS debugging, but Firefox wins with everything else, IMO. Especially their flexbox, grid and font visualizations and debug tools are amazing.
They both use hundreds megabytes of RAM just to render my static page. But for hydrogen web chromium use ~35M. This is shitty.
(w3m use 10M and in most case for searching we only need text-based browser)
You know that famous The Dude meme? Applies here.
Not a chrome fan and I use Librewolf and I like how I’ve customised it. But that’s just, like, my opinion, man.
Librewolf doesn’t respect your choice in system fonts if you uncheck “Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above”. I don’t use it for that reason.
Cant you set a custom font within Librewolf?
You can but it won’t be respected. It will continue to default to their included Noto fonts despite whatever font you select. You can test this yourself. I’m sure they do it for some “privacy reason” but if I wanted that trade off I’d simply use the Tor Browser or one of those hardened firefox profiles.
Strange, no local font should not be fingerprintable.
i love firefox but honestly right now i find edge to be much more aesthetically pleasing, especially with vertical tabs and grouping. if firefox can add these two items, i’d switch to firefox in a heartbeat (and they’re already adding tab groups)
aren’t there extensions for this?
there is sidebery but i just like the edge version more. the extension wasn’t as fluid, plus i like how i can have native profiles for work, uni, and personal built in without extensions like profile switcher, which relies on a third party program. nothing against it; and i still donate to mozilla and firefox. i’m looking forward to seeing mozilla’s approach to tab groups though.
yup vertical tabs are the dealbreaker for me, edge got me hooked. Floorp is a fork that has it, haven’t used it a ton yet but i keep hearing more about it. I’ve been using Arc which i’m enjoying.
Somewhere in this thread is a userchrome.css file on how to remove the “tree style tabs” header bar.
Install that addon.
Place that file in
~/.mozilla/firefox/XXXX-default-release/chromeasUserChrome.css(create that folder).Enable legacy customization in about:config
Or just use multiple browsers? If one size fits all for you then good for you but there is no Firefox based browser that can replace Vivaldi for me. So I use both, one for my power user needs and other for private browsing (hardened Firefox, normal FF isn’t great for privacy either)
Havent used Vivaldi in some time. Have a look at floorp but of course they dont have all the addons vivaldi has like notes and stuff.
And yes, regular FF is simply a “just works” browser but with lots of stupid bloat. Librewolf is actually great as they have a modern CI/CD build pipeline and do all the hardening for you, its more sustainable and secure to share effords.
Source: One person’s opinion on their personal Fediverse account
… Not that I disagree, mind. I’ve been on FF since like. 2007? Which was the moment I figured out that other web browsers besides IE7 existed?
Never saw reason to hop to Chrome(ium) even before I knew/cared about datamining or enshittification or any of that stuff. Back then it just looked like “another browser, that does things a bit different but has no features that entice me that Firefox lacks”. Then as I learned about the political side of things I was like “Huh, guess I’m glad for myself then!”
I used Netscape “back in the day”. With some interim transition attempts including the likes of Opera, I eventually switched to Chrome because it was genuinely more featureful and faster.
I was a happy Chrome user until they decided to deprecate manifest V2 and fuck up my ad blocker, at which point I switched to Firefox and haven’t looked back.
Everything in this industry is circular I guess.
I used Opera when it used Presto instead of becoming a yet another chromium. I miss that one.
What would you consider an authoritative source on if something looks nice?
Me, I’m the certified niceness decider
That tweet is so weak, how are hundreds of people here upvoting and commenting on this?
These are not the only two available browsers, you know?
Do you mean Safari?
Name one other browser that is not based on Chromium. If it is based on Chromium, it has to deal with what Google throws at them.
I say this as an enthusiastic Brave user. Brave is great at what it does currently, but the more terrible stuff Google builds into Chromium, the more patches they’ll have to maintain. This can make it harder to maintain their fork.
Worse than that, most Chromium-derivative users aren’t Brave users. Many web apps already don’t work as well with Firefox’ JavaScript Engine (Gecko) as they do with Chromium. This gives Google immense power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)#Browsers_based_on_Chromium
GNOME Web technically, based on WebKit. Idk if anyone uses that though.
Both OP and the author of the linked post explicitly say “Chrome”, not “Chromium”, and seem to imply those are the only two choices available to users.
If it is based on Chromium, it has to deal with what Google throws at them.
Fair point, but the engine is important.
I understand their blog post, and if I were to build a browser today, I’d probably do the same.
But that doesn’t mean this situation isn’t problematic. It’s similar to car-centric infrastructure: in this situation, for any individual, choice X makes sense, but that will make the situation even worse for the whole population. A cumulation of many tiny Prisoner’s Dilemmas.
I wrote Chromiun in the description too. Chrome is simply what people use.
Plain Chromium, even with all GUI settings, all degoogle policy configs and flags enabled, contacts Google like hell.
I tried googeeteller and its scary.
Have not tried Vivaldi for a long time, but its fingerprinting resistance was nonexistent, it is filled with useless features and has no container support, so nah.
GNOME Web, qutebrowser, Konquerer and Falkon. While they are pretty obscure, I personally use Falkon regularly on low end systems/RPi
Both qutebrowser and Falkon run on the QtWebEngine, essentially Chromium.
That’s true, but QtWebEngine still is it’s own thing. Essentially everything (except Gecko) is KHTML
qutebrowser uses chromium
Brave is extremely shady. Really, I used it and even created a script to install it on rpm-ostree distros, but damn that is shady.
That’s a solid criticism. Firefox + uBlock Origin or Librewolf are good desktop alternatives. But what’s the alternative on Android? Last time I checked, there wasn’t any on privacyguides.
Btw I do always turn off all their rewards and wallet stuff and follow most of the https://privacyguides.org recommendations.
Thanks for your help in making privacy-focused software available on Linux btw!
Fennec, F-Droids fork with proprietary bits removed. & uBlock of course.
Mull is even better, it’s hardened Fennec. It’s basically like LibreWolf but for Android.
Cromite is the best recommendation I can give. It is currently under consideration to be added to privacyguides.org (you can find it on their issues page on the GitHub), and it is expected to be added (as was Bromite, which is where Cromite forked from after development on Bromite was stopped). The main developer of Cromite (uazo) has actually asked the evaluation to be paused until the licensing for aac and h264 are figured out, as licenses are very expensive, and a recommendation on the PrivacyGuides website would likely draw many more users to the project, potentially causing legal trouble. You can track progress on this issue here. It’s worth noting that the dev of Cromite was an active dev of Bromite before Bromite’s lead dev abandoned the project.
I use Firefox + uBlock Origin on Android. You can still install add-ons for the app the same way you do on desktop.
Cromite has adblock. Vanadium too but it may break on on-GrapheneOS as it has security patches that break on regular android.
Mull is very fine for me, I use Vanadium and Mull, Vanadium for crappy sites (because mobile hardened firefox doesnt support as much sites as desktop for some reason). Vanadium is very likely more secure, unlike on Desktop where that is not easily said.
Of course there’s other browsers! There’s Opera…uhh that now based on Chromium. Oh, how about Edge…that’s Chromium based too now. I know, there’s the KHTML engine!..no, that’s been officially discontinued.
Mullvad Browser is another good option that is privacy focused. FF based.
Use a few to isolate different activities.
No.
Mullvad Browser is torbrowser without tor. Its basically the same as Librewolf, afaik Librewolf uses arkenfox user.js which is based on torbrowser.
But the Torbrowser has a “disk avoidance” principle, which means they always use “private browsing” mode as that never saves data on your hard drive.
This means it always deletes everything, session, cookies, tabs, searches, …
MullvadBrowser is not more private than Librewolf and ALSO has these things making it basically unusable for daily usage.
This may lead to people using it “for the private stuff” and a shitty browser for the rest. Which makes no sense, as Librewolf is the same.
And also, private browsing doesnt allow containers, meaning “multi account containers” and “temporary container” are nonfunctional. You dont need to run multiple damn browser sessions, just use containers.
And dont use Mullvad Browser its BS.
Different people have different use cases. I am not sure what point you are making beyond that it does not fit your set up.
What I wrote?
- no container support
- no stored session = not a browser normal people will switch to
- not more hardened or privacy optimized than librewolf
- no profile support too I guess, because private browsing.
But sorry your statement is correct, it is a privacy focused version of Firefox.
But not sure what the “use more to separate activities” means, I try to do that with containers and mail aliases and its already complicated. Running and updating 2 browser engines will not help here.
Such as using socials on 1, banking on another.
Also, a browser for your searches. I guess containers could do that but my understanding you still can get finger printed easily plus I could not get to use them consistently. Having different browsers made it easier, at least for me.
Containers are persistent and you can also use 2 profiles of the same browser and add a desktop entry to launch them separately.
Using separate browsers really is no good practice.
Fingerprintability may be already given by your IP.
Also the fingerprint defender addons help with randomizing some identifiers and fool naive scripts
Good VPN for IP issue.
“Using separate browsers really is no good practice.” can someone provide some support for this?
Mullvad Browser lets you reset the finger print with a click of button.
No that clears browser data, the fingerprint is very complex. If you mean cookies, Librewolf and Firefox can delete all but you can add exceptions where you want to stay logged in. Very handy, also not there in private browsing.
Tor Browser is based on Firefox-ESR, while Librewolf is based on Firefox-Release. Because of this, they do not have identical features and preferences. Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser are designed for stability and minimal customization for the purpose of blending in with other users. Librewolf is designed to receive new features, better privacy defaults than standard Firefox, and allow users to more easily configure preferences. All of these browsers are valid options for privacy-minded people, depending on personal preferences, including separating activities/identities between different browsers. Container tabs are certainly good for privacy, and hopefully the feature can one day be used in private browsing mode.
All of these browsers are valid options for privacy-minded people
However they are bad options for those looking to switch from chrome. Even to myself it was very annoying that it always deletes everything, to someone who “already makes life hard on the web” for itself as some like to note in real life.
Mullbad Browser is fine for systems like Tails (not sure if they have it) and maybe for environments like libraries and such public places, where everything is our should be volatile anyway.Good points. I guess Librewolf will be a little more unique. ESR is a secure base, just pretty outdated soon.
Why don’t I use Firefox he says? Because Edge is better than both!
It’s objectively worse than Firefox. For example, Firefox recently passed all minimum security requirements by the German Federal Office for Information Security. No other browser meets them.
Where those tab groups at tho? Sounds like your hot dog is objectively small.
Go back to kindergarten.
they’re working on it https://news.itsfoss.com/mozilla-firefox-tab-grouping/
For the second time
Firefox’s extensions actually let developers do stuff, so we have tons of tab groups extensions. My favorite is Simple Tab Groups. But if you dont like that one, you can swap it out for a different one! DO YOU GET THAT KIND OF CUSTOMIZATION IN EDGE?
This is a joke right? There is not a single feature it could have that weights against the fact that its still Chromium-spyware.
Edge is better if you are wanting to always have your data mined by Microsoft, for sure.
If you use Edge than you probably use Windows, which means that Microsoft can already mine your data. I guess it’s better to have your data mined by only Microsoft than to have it mined by both Microsoft and Google?
Not sure of this is still true, it often feels like edge is the main spyware feature of windowless in general, integrated into windows search.
Everytime you search for an app or file it doubles as a edge search query to present in the results. You can try disable all the spyware on windows if you want. Edge still stores it in the microsoft cloud so you can sync.
Copilot is a golden ticket for them now. Its literally an edge based application.
As opposed to your data being mined by Google or sold by Mozilla? Dude you’re cracking me up.
Mozilla literally doesn’t do that. If you’re concerned about them lying about it you can compile the browser yourself.
You can packet inspect and watch them do it in real time. I think you mean Brave.
I can packet inspect and watch them sell data? No lol they collect telemetry but you can use a derivative that doesn’t because it’s open source. That’s not the point though, the point is they don’t sell data. You can look at the finances yourself https://stateof.mozilla.org/
Hmm guess they’re running a charity then. Your tracking is not data? I guess you and I have different definitions of what data is. Sure, you can lock it down if you really want. But so can every other browser.
troll
lol did you forget to see which sub you walked into here before shouting?
I knew what I was in for lol
LibreWolf FTW! 👍
When I was using Librewolf maybe 4 years ago, it was never up to date with Firefox. I thought it could be a potential security risk, sometimes it took months to incorporate Firefox security updates. Has that improved recently?
LibreWolf updates follow Firefox updates pretty soon nowadays is my impression.
I had the same impression at least 4 years ago as well. More privacy maybe but less security definitely.
When I was running it every other website would break, switched over to Mullvad Browser instead.
Mullvad Browser is the same but worse.
If you have websites break without noscript, you visit some really shady websites.
Be happy they break and dont claim the browser.
For my websites nearly never cause problems, and if they do Firefox tells me that they want to read my canvas data, send push ads and more, so its obvious.
Why is it worse?
It always uses private browsing mode, read the other comments.
If you have websites break without noscript, you visit some really shady websites.
not necessarily shady… probably designed specifically for Chrome.
Bad websites then. Do you have examples? Thats really bad.
Google, for example, did many demo websites that only worked on chrome in the past… I’ve also seen government website that only worked in Chrome… but unfortunately I don’t keep a list. A company I worked at in the past also had a training website that only worked in Chrome (I’m not revealing this one though…).
Edit: Just stumbled on this website: http://Thai5sushibar.com … not sure if it’s my extensions, but it doesn’t load in Firefox and loads in Chrome. Good rainbow rolls.
Uhm that site has no https and redirects somewhere else, dont feel like enabling javascript for that one.
And Ublock blocks it too. So yeah not a positive example
I just came about it today… but still, it works in Chrome and not Firefox. I have seen many others in the past though.
I actually started using Firefox in my early teens just because I liked the look of the Ui and themes better than Chrome.
I’ve also recently switched to Librewolf ;)
I started using it in my early 20s when it was still called “Firebird” because I was still salty that Netscape was dead and using IE sucked donkey balls. I couldn’t get away from Mozilla.
Wolves got to stick together
Similar reason for me except I was like 10-11. Also another reason was browsing the web with firefox just felt much better to me back then.
And Waterfox looks even better also by virtue of preferences to change userChrome.css
Mind sharing screenshots?
I’ll have to get home. https://github.com/WaterfoxCo/Waterfox/blob/0068b0438b9bd6fb9761882154e7a339d96186af/waterfox/browser/locales/en-US/waterfox.ftl#L160 shows all the options, and Waterfox by default uses the older (initial quantum release) look for Firefox tabs. As a TreeStyleTab user, I love hide sidebar headers and auto-hide tabs
Except Firefox’s bookmark system on android is absolute crap and looks hideous.
Mobile browsers all suck.
What is your alternative? I want E2EE sync. Is vivaldi better? But honestly I wouldnt use their browser.
Use iceraven, it’s a 🍴 of 🦊
Iceraven is a mess. Their extension list is totally random, has tons of duplicates and fundamentally incompatible ones. I went through all of them and tested them and reported what was broken and what was missing.
That alone is enough to convince me not to use their browser. Mull is based.
Brave
Full of nonremovable crypto stuff, and it comes from a very shady company and CEO
Nah its free software
Not really, they sued a group of students because they forked it.
So, no, not really.
Their building docs seem way easier than Firefoxes.
It’s also running on Chromium
homophobic
Firefox has E2EE sync??
Yeah
Yup
Do you have a link to that info? Would that also work with Mullvad browser?
