Hi all, Relatively long time Linux user (2017 to be precise), and about two 3rds of that time has been on Arch and its derivatives.
Been running Endeavour OS for at least 2.5 years now. It’s a solid distro until it’s not. I’d go for months without a single issue then an update comes out of nowhere and just ruins everything to either no return, or just causes me to chase after a fix for hours, and sometimes days. I’m kinda getting tired of this trend of sudden and uncalled for issues.
It’s like a hammer drops on you without you seeing it. I wish they were smaller issues, no, they’re always major. Most of the time I’d just reinstall, and I hate that. It’s so much work for me.
I set things the way I like them and then they’re ruined, and the hunt begins. I have been wanting to switch for a long time, and I honestly have even been looking into some of those immutable distros (that’s how much I don’t want to be fixing my system.
I’m tired, I just want to use my system to get work done). I was also told that Nobara is really good (is it? Never tried it). My only hold back — and it’s probably silly to some of you— is the AUR. I love it.
It’s the most convenient thing ever, and possibly the main reason why I have stuck with Arch and its kids. Everything is there.
So, what do y’all recommend? I was once told by some kind soul to use an immutable distro and setup “distrobox” on it if I wanted the AUR.
I’ve never tried this “distrobox” thing (I can research it, no problem). I also game here and there and would like to squeeze as much performance as I can out of my PC (all AMD, BTW, and I only play single player games).
So, I don’t know what to do. I need y’all’s suggestions, please. I’ll aggregate all of the suggestions and go through them and (hopefully) come up with something good for my sanity. Please suggest anything you think fits my situation. I don’t care, I will 100% appreciate every single suggestion and look into it.
I’m planning to take it slow on the switch, and do a lot of research before switching. Unless my system shits the bed more than now then I don’t know. I currently can’t upgrade my system, as I wouldn’t be able to log in after the update. It just fails to log in.
I had to restore a 10 days old snapshot to be able to get back into my damn desktop. I have already copied my whole home directory into another drive I have on my PC, so if shit hits the fan, I’ll at least have my data. Help a tired brother out, please <3. Thank you so much in advance.
OpenSUSE Leap is the way to go my dude. It’s been formulated by pedantic Germans and you can’t go wrong with YAST/zypper for package management.
First to answer your main question if I were you I would try NixOS, because it’s declarative so it’s essentially impossible to break, i.e. if it breaks for whatever reason a fresh reinstall will get you back to exactly where you were.
That being said, I know it’s anecdotal but I have been using Arch for (holy crap) 15 years, and I’ve never experienced an update breaking my system. I find that most of the time people complain about Arch breaking with an update they’re either not using Arch (but Manjaro, Endeavor, etc) and rely heavily on AUR which one should specifically not do, much less on Arch derivatives. The AUR is great, but there’s a reason those packages are not on the main repos, don’t use any system critical stuff from them and you should be golden. Also try to figure out why stuff broke when it did, you’ll learn a lot about what you’re doing wrong on your setup because most people would have just updated without any issues. Otherwise it really doesn’t matter which distro you choose, mangling a distro with manual installations to the point where an upgrade breaks them can be done on most of them, and going for a fully immutable one will be very annoying if you’re so interested in poking at the system.
I agree with this, the issue may be the packages installed rather than the distro. For a more reliable experience, I like to:
- Use Flatpak instead of the AUR where possible
- Use built-in filesystems and avoid DKMS
No, I’ve been running Endeavour forever and know his pain quite well. It’s almost always core packages that break it. None of the stuff from the AUR has ever caused issues. That being said he should be using btrfs and taking regular snapshots. Sometimes I feel like installing grub just to make recovering snapshots easier.
Twice this year I’ve had updates break the system, both were core packages. I just restore a snapshot then delay my next update for a couple days and it’s usually fixed.
That sounds like an awful system to use. I have Arch systems that date back years with unassisted updates, why does it break so much?
I never wanted a hobby, but rather an operating system. I’ve been using Pop! for over six years. I only had one stretch where I felt like I was chasing annoying bugs and I don’t remember it clearly enough to remember how long it lasted.
I never wanted a hobby, but rather an operating system.
That’s exactly how I’m starting to feel. I was a “distro-hopper” when I was new to it, but now I just want shit to work. The only thing stopping me from pop is the state of their distro at current time. It feels like it’s been abondened or something. I know they’re busy with cosmic, but that’s what it looks like. Also, I’m a kde plasma only person. I just can’t use anything else.
OpenSuse Leap or even Tumbleweed. After getting the media codecs up and running, and remembering to set you firewall zone to “home”, you’re pretty golden.
Opensuse is absolutely not a set it and forget it distro. I get recommending your favorite distro to other users, but telling them it’s an easy to use distro is absolutely false and sets them up for disappointment. You have to download the codecs yourself if you want to do so much as watch a video on firefox, for which you have to add a new repo. I’ve tried it for two days and I’ve already spent half of them fixing bugs or snapping back to a version that worked because it froze after sleeping before I even did anything with it other than log in.
I can’t speak for you but I didn’t have to do any of that, my installs worked out of the box…
… that is def not my case, openSUSE is saving me a lot of time.
I’ve switched all my fiends & family (desktops) to Tumbleweed like 5 years ago bcs I don’t have to do any maintenance ever (not even customisation at the beginning, beyond setting them accounts). It has always been stable with exception that they only became “almost” out-of-the-box gaming friendly only in recent year or two.
Tumbleweed is just there, always updated, and feels nice. Oh, it’s not the quickest boot maybe?
Previously (15+ years, maybe 20 my parents) I had my family on Debians/Ubuntus which were stable but always very fiddly to distro upgrade, I don’t even remember what went wrong with old Fedora, but I changed it back in less than a year (almost 10 years ago, not relevant).
Look, this is the reason people pay RedHat money. Go install Rocky Linux, turn on all the automatic updates and ignore it for the next five years.
On the enthusiast side, NixOS seems to be working fine if you want newer versions of software or larger repos.
NixOS is great if you’re ready to learn Nix, which is an undertaking
I guess we can formulate a law:
- Stable
- Easy to use
- Up-to-date
Pick any two.
Bazzite
Seconded, I moved my gaming rig is on Bazzite and has been trouble free and maintenance free ever since.
I installed Bluefin on the laptop I gave my father, and it’s been happily running trouble-free every single day since August without a single intervention. And my father is the kind of man who can conjure up unknown bugs, weird failures and random crashes by simple hand contact.
I use Bluefin myself, and it’s honestly been game changing. Using an immutable distro has been the greatest quality of life upgrade in my 15 years of using Linux.
Also, if you use distrobox (automatically installed with Bluefin, Aurora, Bazzite, etc.) you can even setup an Arch container and continue to use the AUR. I use Steam installed from within an Arch container and it doesn’t feel any different from a natively installed app. It also means I don’t have to use the Steam flatpak which I had a couple issues with.
OP, another vote for this one.
It addresses your concerns in a wonderful way:
- Reliability; While it’s far from unique in this regard, I’d argue that the uBlue distros are one of if not the most reliable desktop Linux experience that’s currently out there. You know most of the drill already (read: built-in rollback functionality, clean base system). But, the uBlue project has some aces up on their sleeves that (to my knowledge) are pretty unique:
- “Ninety (90) days of image archives allowing for flexible rollback options.” The images are stored online, so they don’t even take space on your device.
- Shared community maintenance, i.e. even if upstream has a rare fuck-up, you can trust on uBlue’s maintainers to deal with it without you even noticing. For a recent example of this, we got this.
- Access to the AUR; while Distrobox can be installed on any distro, uBlue projects come with perks that make the whole experience better than it’s found elsewhere. From quadlets that have been properly setup from the get-go so that you don’t have to (additionally) maintain those distrobox containers, to even minor things like including Boxbuddy OOTB to make the transition as easy as they come.
- Setup for Gaming; It goes without saying that Bazzite is excellent for gaming. It’s gaming-ready OOTB and includes (almost[1]) all the performance tweaks you’d wish.
- Setup and forget; I (almost[2]) don’t know any other distro that better embodies this than Bazzite (and its other uBlue-relatives).
All in all, I think Bazzite is definitely worth a look. Consider installing it and setup to your heart’s content. If -at any time during or after that process- you come across an insurmountable[3] issue caused by its atomic/cloud-native/‘immutable’ nature, then you can check it off your list and look elsewhere.
- CachyOS is still superior in this regard by doing a better job at inching out (literally) every performance gain out there.
- Perhaps Endless OS does an even better job at this, but that would be a bad recommendation for all the other reasons.
- Before giving up, if you wouldn’t have done it by then, at least consider contacting the community through their Discord server. They’re very helpful. FWIW, Bazzite has pretty excellent documentation as well. (Even if it ain’t as exhaustive as the even more impressive ArchWiki. Granted, it doesn’t have to be as expansive.)
- Reliability; While it’s far from unique in this regard, I’d argue that the uBlue distros are one of if not the most reliable desktop Linux experience that’s currently out there. You know most of the drill already (read: built-in rollback functionality, clean base system). But, the uBlue project has some aces up on their sleeves that (to my knowledge) are pretty unique:
Literally said they don’t want immutable.
You are confidentially incorrect. I suggest you actually take the time to read the post again.
I honestly have even been looking into some of those immutable distros (that’s how much I don’t want to be fixing my system.
Literally said they don’t want immutable.
At best, they might have implied it. (But I don’t think they do.) Here are the (relevant) snippets:
I honestly have even been looking into some of those immutable distros (that’s how much I don’t want to be fixing my system. I’m tired, I just want to use my system to get work done)
I was once told by some kind soul to use an immutable distro and setup “distrobox” on it if I wanted the AUR.
“I just want to use my system”, and specifying they love AUR means to go immutable distro for you? I bet you’re fun in bed.
Nowhere did they say that those statements mean immutable to them. Just that your claims that OP “literally said they didn’t want immutable” is not based in reality.
You’re literally incorrect and have problems reading words directly in front of you. They literally say in their post that they are looking at immutable distros.
Log off if you’re unable to provide anything of value to this thread.
I came from Arch to Fedora as well but using Universal Blue’s images. In my case, Aurora (KDE), and daughter’s Bluefin (Gnome). They update in the background and only install when you reboot. So far, most of the newer software releases such as web browsers or the desktop environment fall within a day or two for being installed which is a nice alternative. The big plus I see on these too is they are immutable so if something installs or breaks, you just boot into the previous version from Grub and go from there.
Additionally, OpenSuse MicroOS has options for whatever environment you are used to such as Gnome or KDE, this is immutable as well. I view all of these as “Set and Forget”.
I didnt even remember which os I had until I read this and remembered it was aurora
Wtf 😂
Do external devices work? Like Xbox controller, printers and stuff like that?
Garuda is about the same.
Arch base, preconfigured for btrfs snapshots on Pacman updates (and they provide a handy
garuda-updatewrapper to that), many niceties already done for you.I’ve used the snapshot feature a couple times and only because the Nvidia drivers botched something horribly and I went back to the same snapshot a couple times.
And I use distrobox (rootless podman FTW) for some crap too. Like that time I needed WebEx at a moment’s notice for a call (and they only provide a deb and rpm). Or spur of the moment dev environments when I don’t wanna futz around with vscode devcontainers.
But with arch-based stuff, you gotta read the Pacman output. If you don’t wanna, definitely reconsider immutable. Next time I can be bothered to reinstall, that’s where I’m headed. Heck, you can start a distrobox with Arch and install all the AUR shit you please without a major worry.
Their ISOs are broken and don’t boot. Tried every single one, changed USB flash drives, nope none of them booted. Used the same drive for another distro and it booted just fine
Well that’s not good…
They seem to be reasonably active, so I would imagine that situation won’t last long.
I surely hope so.
Linux Mint. As an alternative: any kind of BSD is going to be pretty stable.
Try blendOS. It’s basically Arch but immutable. And SteamOS also exists.
It has been some time since I gave this a proper look. Do you use this yourself? If so, would you be so kind to share some of your experiences?
I used Silverblue and tried HoloISO, but it’s the same thing.
i’m trying out Aeon at the moment. it’s from the opensuse people.
it auto-updates, it snapshots itself so any failed update will just silently revert, and it does flatpaks or distrobox only.
if you’re okay with gnome, try it.
I’ve read the whole documentation page. It sounds really good, but still has some issues that I might not like. I’m going to install it in a vm and see. Also, kalpa is still in alpha stage and I’m not a gnome person.
Debian. I’ve had installations which went trough several major version upgrades, I’ve worked with ‘set and forget’ setups where someone originally installed Debian and I get my hands on it 3-5 years later to upgrade it and it just works. Sure, it might not be as fancy as some alternatives and some things may need manual tweaking here and there, but the thing just works and even on rare occasion something breaks you’ll still have options to fix it assuming you’re comfortable with plain old terminal.
I can’t speak for the desktop side, but for my server it’s been running without interruption for years. About once per week I do something stupid and use all available memory, but it hasn’t crashed once. It just runs a bit slow until I free up some RAM, then Docker comes back to life once I free up some disk space. I definitely recommend it for anyone who wants a server OS that just works.
I was actually thinking of that. How’s testing and unstable, are they good, too?
They are excactly what the name implies. Testing is generally pretty good, but it’s still testing. And unstable is also what the name implies. People, myself included back in the day, run both as daily drivers, but if you want rock stable distribution installing unstable revision might not be the best choise.
They are the opposite of “set it and forget it”.
Probably the most maintenance-heavy distros out there.
They’re like Arch, if the Arch maintainers didn’t care about keeping the system working.Damn. Lol. Ok then, will let that go
Fedora Workstation has been really good in my experience. The available software is shockingly up to date and I haven’t run into much breakage of any kind in the year or so I’ve been using it across 2 systems (despite my best efforts every few months when the urge to tinker hits me). I do occasionally run into issues caused by the default SELinux policies, but they’re not especially difficult to work around if you’re comfortable using the terminal.
I do share your sentiment about the AUR - I definitely miss it at times. That said, Flatpaks and the fact that pre-built RPMs are so commonplace have both softened the blow a lot.
Thank you. I’ve run Fedora for a long while, too. Albeit, it was a while ago (not sure how good it is now), but I’ve never had any luck with its kde version. It was always broken (for me at least). Also, hunting for apps was kind of a big issue. Then come copr repos. But I guess we have a good case with flatpaks now. Even thought I couldn’t use them before due to storage constraints, but now, that’s not an issue. So, I’ll keep Fedora in mind. I appreciate you
It’s currently the most simple to use and “just works” option.
I reckon that mantle should go to Fedora Silverblue over Fedora Workstation.
Personally found an immutable distro to be too restrictive at the moment when it comes to installing non flatpak software. If all your apps are flatpaks then everything just works and its great and super stable however some apps I just couldn’t get working with distrobox. Switch to fedora workstation from ublue aurora and have loved it. Been super stable and everything just works
Came from Arch and OpenSuse. Fedora has been such a great switch. As I’ve gotten older and became a dad, my computer time at home is limited and I don’t have endless evenings to troubleshoot shit. Fedora has been stable for me for the last 4 years. I use the KDE spin.
Look. I’ve been there. I started my Linux journey with Arch based distros, then distrohopped a lot, and finally found the best for me, and what I personally consider the best either for normal users or those that don’t want to do any maintenance.
It’s the Universal Blue family of distros: Bazzite (gaming / KDE / gnome) Aurora (standard / development / KDE) Bluefin (standard / development / gnome)
Set it and forget about it. It just freaking works. For GUI apps install from the Discover app store (which uses Flatpak), for cli apps use Homebrew (brew install whatever). If you can’t find something, open Distrobox (already included) create an Arch container, install whatever you want from the AUR, and use it like you’re used to. It works like freaking magic.
If somehow you manage to brick your installation, when you reboot you’ll be able to boot to a past snapshot.
You just can’t fail with this. It’s the best of the best IMHO.
You absolutely can fail. I daily drive bazzite but many things have been pretty rough:
Any coding apps that will use an external device -> you can’t use flatpak. You have to use distrobox that constantly freezes your entire mouse for 3-5 seconds upon any sort of dialog, settings, saving, anything where it has to access the filesystem. Then you have to add udev rules to directories that in the documentation says not to write to, and reloading the rules doesn’t work for testing, you have to fully restart with every minor change or it will seem like the change didn’t work.
Luckily most device drivers seem to work in the provided arch distrobox but holy dependency hell. Things will fail to install because they need a package that exists on the host but not the container so you get an unsolvable “file exists” conflict. When installing a package, it will sometimes just try to grab an old version of a dependency specifically that will 404 out instead of just grabbing the most recent version (never happened on arch itself to me)
Setting up a plasma vault with gocryptfs was not fun figuring out how. Also ran into tons of dependency problems and the fact that fedora just abandoned it specifically. Ended up just having to stick the binary in a random folder and point to it.
Any sort of document authentication/signing -> doesn’t work and will not work in the future for a long time.
You absolutely have to install rpms still for corectrl, any external devices, like drawing tablets, etc…
Some games inexplicably use <50% GPU and <40% CPU with terrible framerates and will not go any higher (or lower) no matter what, switching between low and high settings and resolution results in 0fps change.
When I have my config set and don’t have to change anything, it is super super nice to never have to manually update, but anything outside of very basic usage is weaving through nonstandard undocumented territory.
Bazzite trades maintenance headaches for configuration and installation headaches. For me, that is worth it.
I’m sorry Bazzite didn’t work out for you.
Your use case sounds like a better fit for Arch, since you have very specific needs like adding uncommon device drivers, gocryptfs, udev rules, etc. For anyone else, wanting to try Bazzite, I’ll answer the rest of the topics:
Flatpak apps with external devices
All apps I’ve tried support external devices just fine, in the event the app you need doesn’t support external devices out of the box, try adding USB device access through the app’s permissions in the System Settings app.
Distrobox Freezes & dependencies
I have an all AMD desktop PC, and an intel laptop, Distrobox runs perfectly fine. Every package will rely on dependencies inside Distrobox.
Edit: after writing this post, I realized I needed someway to de-drm my Audible books, so I installed the Libation RPM in my Fedora Distrobox, it failed to launch because it needed libicu or something like that, so I opened the Fedora Distrobox terminal and typed sudo dnf install libicu, done. Launched perfectly like it was installed on my base Bazzite installation. But all the dependencies remain isolated, unable to crap all over my system if something happens. My system remains shielded from dependency apocalypse.
Encryption
Bazzite supports LUKS full disk encryption.
corectrl
Use LACT, you can install it through the Bazzite Portal (that’s Bazzite 1st run app, you can run it anytime though)
RPMs are needed for any external devices, like drawing tablets, etc…
Any external devices would be a great overstatement. I have the standard PC Peripherals, then I have: xbox 360 controllers, xbox series X controllers, Thrustmaster Wheel, Logitech x56 Flight Stick, none of them require any RPM and just work out of the box, unlike on Windows. For drawing tablets, there are tons that are supported right out of the box without any additional driver, for example Wacom.
For any developers out there wanting to customize Bazzite to fit your particular use case, you can even easily fork the distro and build your own and still get auto-updates, with any additional device drivers, RPMs, and whatever else you want to fulfill your edge use case. Follow this link here.
Wow, what a wall of text. I’m sorry but I’m sure I skimmed some parts.
Look. The bulk of the replies you’re going to get will be like “this is my favourite distro and here’s how it works for you” not “this is the best distro for your criteria.” It’s important to understand the deep level of bias you’re going to get.
But your cause is a noble one. I use a particular style of distro because it can be trusted to install well, back out well, do both safely, and allow validation at every stage. I think it’s a good candidate, and it’s already been mentioned as a really great ‘set it and forget it’ distro.
Good luck.
