My Windows 10 computer eerily waking itself from sleep got me in the habit of shutting it down completely every night. I’d be lying in bed, turn over and open my eyes, and see the light of the screen reflecting off the wall. It was like something out of a shitty horror movie about computers taking over the world.
To this fucking day, even in Windows 11, it takes “Update and Shut Down” as a mere fucking suggestion. About half the time, it’ll restart after the update and just sit there chilling at the login screen. Not a single fuck given.
Linux is a breath of fresh air by comparison. Though, if you choose to run Arch you need to stay on top of updates or else a day will come where you won’t be able to update because you’re now too far behind. It can be fixed manually, but it’s still annoying and a little scary if you’re not familiar with it.
i didnt know arch did that. never happened to me, though i guess that’s because i update it like once every month or every two months, sometimes every day (depends on how long i can forget about updates existing)
The GPG keys that are used to sign packages expire and are rotated something like every six months to a year. If you don’t get the new ones in an update before they start being used, pacman will refuse to update at all.
It’s easily fixable, but if you don’t know that, it can be quite intimidating.
oh that makes sense, thx for explaining :D
Windows wakes up from hibernate? How tf is that happening? Also how tf it knows when to update when its hibernated/sleeping?
Better always keep a gun next to your bed if you use Windows.
Good thing i don’t
There is a thing called wake timers on Windows. There is also Wake-on-LAN but not sure if that’s enabled on default or not.
So they don’t wake when new update arrives but only for prescheduled previously downloaded update?
Yeah, update arriving part is not necessary but it wakes the PC up, checks for updates and install them if there are any, does this every night. And if you disabled auto-sleep it just stays like that until you interfere.
Shit its wake to check for updates🤦♂ So it happens even if there is no update… Thats so fucked up
CPU interrupts. There are timer interrupts that can be used for this. In hibernate, only a tiny fraction of the CPU is changing the transistor states. A transistor only uses power when it changes state; i.e. “off” or Hibernate. Transistor state changes when you cycle the clock on a CPU. Anyways, set the register for the timer interrupt and signal the CPU for Hibernate. The timer circuit is still listening to the clock while the rest of the CPU stops listening to the clock. Each clock cycle you subtract one from the register. When the register reaches zero, the timer interrupt wakes the rest of the CPU. Just like moving your mouse or pressing the power button; they signal an interrupt which wakes the CPU.
Imagine your oven or clothes iron turning itself on while you’re not home. Why TF people just accept their computers doing this is beyond me. Either it’s a boiling frog situation, or people simply don’t remember the times us users had complete control over our devices and think things were always this way.
As an 80s/90s kid, I can tell you they most definitely were not.
I hate windows doing windows things but that’s an oxymoron take because computers aren’t known to cause fires, if there was an apparent danger around leaving PCs on unattended, then there would’ve been legal repercussion. This is just a mere annoyance to most.
Electricity isn’t free, and neither is it’s impact on your computer hardware. The life expectancy of a circuit may reasonably be approximated as a function of watt-hours. this is why hardware manufactuers test their circuits in ovens: the heat simulates high wattage.
it doesn’t matter if the power drain is low. So long as your computer is on, it’s lifetime watt-hours are constantly ticking down.
Sleep disruption is a serious health issue
You can update arch from any point of time to the current, it just takes a bit of time. Just use arch archove and update by month or two.
ACPI enabled BIOSes and UEFI support wake timers.
Windows uses this feature to wake the PC all spooky like so you don’t get to click the update button yourself.
While Windows doesn’t have an Arch wiki, the instructions for turning the automatic wake feature off are a web search away. You’ll need another web search to disable automatic updates though.
The software is arrogant and needs to know its place. It serves the user. It should obey.
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y
That’s how easy updating is on (Debian flavors)Linux.
On arch it is sudo pacman -Syu or yay
sudo nixos-rebuild switch --update
I like and I do use Linux as my main OS. No dual boot BS, just pure Linux
butttttttttttttt
getting hibernate working perfectly in Linux on new hardware is PITA. I’m just happy with suspend working well, let alone hibernation.
Modern standby is the absolute shit of an invention.
This is the ONLY reason I wish I have a Mac. Forget all the memes and jokes about Apple, their laptops suspend very well. IIRC, they also have a hibernation timer built in, so if your laptop automatically hibernates after X hrs. But I dont want to be stuck in their ecosystem, so yeh…
Linux devs are not that keen to make hibernate work well either. Remember systemd dev forcefully removed the “suspend then hibernate” feature? You can still find the thread on Github lol.
this meme is really true for windows, sometimes my pc wakes up the second I put it to sleep. seems to be some random app I have open allowing it to wake up again. infuriating. With intel macs, they wasted a lot of battery asleep, but my silicon mac can sleep for weeks without losing hardly any battery. linux I still can’t get sound to work properly.
OpenSUSE hibernate works. Just have to add extention to show the hibernate button (in GNOME)
Windows would always wake from hibernation/suspension by itself after 2 or 3 hours. Truly a feature, not a bug
I love how they wake up in my backpack so they can overheat AND drain the battery at the same time.
That’s efficiency.
Reach into your backpack and get 3rd degree burns.
Linux users when their computer won’t boot because they fucked up their grub config again: (Totally not me)
A lot of systems use systemd boot. Also, why would you be modifying Grub?
They’re trolling and have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about. I’ve literally not had a bootloader failure in a decade from multiple Linux OS installs.
The only time I had an issue was when I was playing with a bleeding edge distro and it borked full disk encryption, but that was INTENTIONALLY bleeding edge and I knew the risks.
Nah I was doing some virtualization troubleshooting and had to make some changes to grub. Luckily I had backups, but as a serial tinkerer I break stuff pretty often. Also fucked up my fstab when trying to automount drives, though that was an easy fix. I never claimed to be a clever man
Or just installed few months of missing updates, looking at you my broken Manjaro dual-boot
Just don’t use a rolling distro.
Tumbleweed will update six months of packages or more without breaking a sweat. It’s all about using something sturdy.
Are you distro hopping? That’s when my grub would fail on me on a monthly basis.
Devils advocate time: Windows does this because users are stupid and will never update their PCs if they don’t have to. I’ve met too many people who never update their tech. Operating systems and the software they run is far too complex to be 100% secure so we mitigate that by updates. They are a necessity. The vulnerability responsible for EternalBlue was patched and pushed with a windows update before the ransomware attack, how many users ignored it? Windows is so annoying with its updates because it has to be.
I know I’m not awake because I read your first line as “Devils advocate time”, as in "Devils argue in support of time itself. "
I’ll have to discuss this with the time-being.
if you always shut it down, when it has an update it’ll force you to update and shut down. but people don’t like shutting down their pcs for some reason so yeah ur right
Just shut it off when you arent using it like a normal person.
unless you’re gonna use it later, like in case you have a bunch of programs open that you’d need to reopen and open a bunch of project files
edit: for some reason my train of thought went everywhere other than the rails at the start
Nvidia users having to shutdown anyway because the computer will hang when trying to put it to sleep:
It didn’t hang up for me on Linux; though I had to disable sleep anyways since after waking up it seemed like every frame had an error and was logging said error into a growing 500 GB syslog
Ugh, the updates…my work PC is Win 11, I got an email for IT last night telling me I had to install the latest update I had been putting off. This morning after I clocked out I started the update. I have 500 down and it took almost 2 hours to download and 3 hours later the installation is only at 53%. I’m just going to go to bed and hope it’s done by the time I have to clock in tonight.
And my coworkers wonder why I prefer Linux…
This would have to be enabled on the Motherboard or something because Hibernate is essentially a shutdown with the RAM saved into the Hard Drive, unless they’ve changed that.
Its called “modern standby” or something, and is the main option for suspending windows laptops I believe
My ex had one of them RGB everything rainbow gamer PCs.
Windows would auto boot to update in the middle of the night and turn the whole apartment into a rave…
damn, that sucks
also because that’s the only thing about that ex i know, the only conclusion i can make is that you stopped dating because of random middle of the night RGB raves
STOP TALKING ABOUR WINDOWS!! STOP TALKING ABOUT WINDOWS!!! IM BORED
oOooOooOo 🪟
Turn the fucking PSU off, dipshits. Perfectly safe to do while hibernated, and you’re now in complete control of when it powers on.
Modern PCs don’t truly hibernate, they sleep. If the tower loses power its considered a hard reset.
If anything, Windows machines often have ‘fast boot’ enabled which saves certain things to state, so today’s manual shutdown (without power loss) is closer to old school hibernation than today’s ‘sleep’ is.
You can shutdownyour PC each night, but depending on what you’re working on it can disrupt workflow, so I understand why many people prefer to sleep instead.
I’m bottom even when I used windows because I turn it the hell off when I’m not using my computer.
Yes. Same with my TV and everything.
isn’t the joke in the bottom that the pc and you are both sleeping tho
I started down the Linux route over the weekend and put my computer in hibernation and couldn’t figure out how to wake it up from its torpor without restarting. So I’m going with suspension for the time being
Firstly, welcome :)
Secondly, hibernation on Linux requires swap partition 2x size of the RAM. If you didn’t set it big enough or did not set at all, hibernation wouldn’t work. However if you set it correctly, there should be another reason to consider.
If you are not sure, you can use this command on terminal to compare your RAM and swap sizes.
free -mAccording to the FAQ I found, you mostly don’t need double your RAM. Especially for systems with lots of memory, they suggest instead the swap should be the square root of the RAM if you don’t hibernate. If you do it should be RAM + SQRT(RAM).
I’m not sure where the square root part comes from, but I think the general idea is that if you’re using more swap than that, you should just add RAM.
I’m still trying to get hibernate working on Bazzite. I followed the instructions I found and got it to the point that “Hibernate” is showing up in the menu, and when I use that menu item it seems to be saving state, but on boot I can’t get it to restore my previous session. I suspect it has to do with the Bazzite / Universal Blue bootc weirdness, but I haven’t spent much time digging into it yet.
That’s interesting. I guess I understand now why my 2 GB swap can get filled rather quickly. After I read that FAQ, I delved a little more and found this. Apparently it’s not feasible to use hibernation if you have more than 64 GB RAM, well at least until we got much more faster SSDs it seems.
Not the same but if you’re using KDE on Bazzite, KDE has a restore previous windows option (or something like that). You can use it until find a solution.
It looks like they say “not recommended” rather than “not feasible”.
It’s annoying when there’s a doc like that without a date on it. That could be 10 years old now, and might not be taking into account NVMe drives.
And yeah, I’ve been using “restore previous session”, but it’s annoying because it’s not restoring windows in their previous positions on their previous desktops. There is probably a way to enable it to remember previous window positions, but I’ve been trying to get hibernate working rather than poke at that. Besides, what I really want it to remember is my tmux windows and what they were running. That’s really not possible without hibernation / sleep / suspend.
I guess not feasible was a strong word. I saw on a couple forums and it seems it takes around 2 minutes to hibernate if you have that much RAM, even with an NVMe. Probably that’s why it’s not recommended, which is understandable. Also it says Redhat 8, so it shouldn’t be older than 5 years.
I checked and it seems Bazzite doesn’t support hibernation out of the box and you need to disable zram if you want to use it. Kinda weird to me but I never used an immutable distro before so maybe it’s related to that.
Yeah, I already disabled zram. I was following that web page.
I think the issue is that I need to add resume support to the initramfs. Because it’s an immutable distro, I have to do that a bit differently. As for the zram and immutable distro weirdness, I think it’s also Bazzite which is designed to work on the SteamDeck and other portable devices. I remember reading something about their sometimes having low amounts of RAM so they do some weird things to make up for it.
Anyhow, I’m going to try it tonight, wish me luck. :)
I remember reading something about their sometimes having low amounts of RAM so they do some weird things to make up for it.
That makes sense. I was doing a similar but opposite thing when I was still using Windows. It comes with hibernate but I never used it so I was removing the swap equivalent of it every time I install it.
Well, at least have fun with it. Good luck! :)
I’m sure I’ll understand those words eventually. I wasn’t sure what the difference was, so just tried hibernation. But I haven’t tried any swapping of partitions or partitioning at all, it was just a standard debian install that gave me the option, which I haven’t touched since.
