As a Linux user for a few years now I have to disagree. My friends who still rely on Windows only software for either school or their jobs use Revision OS and installs it with a tool called playbooks which takes only a few minutes and automatically disables feature updates; only allowing security updates to go through. This makes it so all “system updates” are through the playbook app which is pretty cool, it pretty much makes it a Windows fork and won’t revert or break anything when updating
1, Revision OS is awesome, and good on you for sharing it!
2, I don’t think that’s you disagreeing really, just offering a “third path”.
i will try Garuda. i will not go for the easiest, because i want to improve
Garuda is amazing, but it definitely isn’t a beginner distro. Also, a lot of the design choices are questionable, so I still wind up changing a lot of things after installing it.
i tried tumbleweed, so i should be able to handle it, right?
I don’t know about Tumbleweed. Garuda isn’t difficult, unless you have to troubleshoot something. There are a few things to keep in mind, though:
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It’s an Arch distro. Arch is considered not beginner-friendly to begin with, and Garuda does some things differently. It’s very opinionated, and, like I said, some of the design choices are questionable.
-
If you need to do anything on the command line, you should be aware that Garuda uses the fish shell instead of bash (which is the standard for Linux distros). You might also want to check out
~/.config/fish/config.fish, because there is some interesting, funny, and weird things in there. For example,lsis aliased toeza. -
Do you like macOS? Because that’s the default setup: global menu, dock, etc. You can change all that, but it takes a lot of work.
There are a lot of good things about Garuda, though. There is tons of eye-candy. The
fishshell is much more enjoyable to use thanbash. The chaotic-AUR repository gives you access to even more software than standard Arch repos. And whenever you upgrade, it automatically takes a snapshot of your system, so that if something breaks, you can roll your system back to a previously-working version!-
My experience is the opposite.
Took an hour just to get a mouse to work on Mint
That’s wild. Mice are a generic driver just like on Windows. It should be plug and play on either OS.
Why did it take an hour? Any idea what was happening?
Took hours to get wifi working on Mint after wasting a day trying to get my GPU working on Bazzite (all AMD setup before someone asks)
Meanwhile I install windows with English UK as my language and don’t get any of the bullshit people complain about AND everything works.
I’ll play Fallen Order on Linux (shader issue on Windows causes stutter while they’re loading while the game is running) and will probably uninstall it and just continue using Windows.
Still have an absolute mess on Linux Mint with my projector, wrong aspect ratios everywhere, sometimes only one screen is selected. Maybe it has something to do with how and when I connected/booted/powered each device…
Who the fucks tries to debloat windows?
Me back when I needed HDR and Linux didn’t have it 😭
If you debloat Win10 and 11 your system will run better. Debloaters are aggressive to differing degrees (I recommend Chris Titus), but a lot of things are turned on by default that shouldn’t be - like the Xbox service when you don’t have an Xbox - using resources for no reason.
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).
I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.
I run a Mint laptop (for the hell of it, and I do mean hell) . Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even POST.
Windows would never do this, no, Windows can never do this. It is incapable of running a battery to zero, it’ll shutoff before then to protect the battery. To really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero.
There no way even possible via the Mint GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions. None, nada, zip, not at all. Command line only, in the twenty-furst century, something Windows has had since I don’t recall, 95 I think (I was carrying a laptop then, and I believe it had hibernate, sorry, it’s been what, almost thirty years now).
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. While I don’t disagree with the sentiment, no, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? Again, in the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. In the 21st century?
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a third-party download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of Windows since Win2k (at the least) and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.
So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.
And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?
I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.
I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s of a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
Some pretty wild claims in there. It’s okay to just not like it without making stuff up like ‘Linux doesn’t support Logitech mice’ or ‘windows can never run a laptop battery to zero’.
There’s no beginner friendly Linux OS, but…if you willing to learn a thing or two about linux (at least know how to install programs, updating system, & install your favorite Windows program on wine bc you can’t find equivalent linux program) i think you’ll loved Linux so much because it’s so flexible.
If you encounter errors, don’t worry, there’s answer how to fix it, all you need is Google/DuckDuckGoUbuntu is absolutely a beginner friendly OS. If I give a computer to somebody that knows nothing more than how to turn it on, Ubuntu will be no more difficult for that person to surf the internet than it would be in Windows. I’ve been teaching people how to use their computers for more than half my life and the vast majority of problems are ignorant people on Windows. Linux isn’t inherently more difficult to use, it’s just different. For adept Windows users, switching and expecting to be just as familiar is where it gets more tricky.
Arch is driving down the middle, flipping off both sides while having the time of your life.
(Caution: May be best or worst. Commenter may be heavily biased as he uses Arch btw.)
This one makes a lot more sense.
I would rather use gentoo on my gaming rig than fuck around with DLLs for even a second
I’m a programmer at a tech company. Last month, I tried setting up two different distros on my personal computer, in anticipation of Windows 10 EOL.
I experienced:
- Total failure of wifi drivers
- Graphical corruption returning from sleep mode
- Inability to load levels in Deck-certified games
- Critical input delays in a reflex-based online game
- Inability to install a particular Linux-native app on my particular distro; not only unavailable by main package manager, but also by its alternative container-based strategy.
- Right-click menus that hid the options I’m used to finding on Windows, with no visible way to turn them on.
- Repeated overriding of my customization of keyboard shortcuts
- Inability to assign Ctrl+Tab as a keyboard shortcut for a terminal app (Tab was unrecognized)
- UI forms altering my selection when I was attempting to scroll past them
- No discernible methods to pin frequently used folders to the sidebar of the file explorer
- No discernible way to remove/edit Application entries (leading to games that I created an entry though off Steam’s install dialog being stuck there even after the game was deleted)
So no, don’t keep telling me I’m staying on Windows out of idiocy. If someone replies to this with a doctoral on why every single issue is actually somehow my fault, it completes the trifecta.
Linux distros need to take a step back for a long, lengthy discussion on good user experience before they rush back to making memes like these.
This. I need to get work done, not work on my os.
Oh, they have lengthy discussion on good user experience. Have you seen gnome argue with the entire planet about whether the shutdown menu should let you shut down?
(I may be misremembering, maybe they wouldn’t let you log out or put the computer to sleep or something stupid because their only concept of design is deleting features and creating backlogged tickets to reimplement the same function in a new “better” way)
Personally I have experienced most of that too on desktop. I use Linux for my home servers (oops I used zfs cause everyone says it’s good and better than btrfs and now the one dude who runs the arch zfs gitlab went awol so I haven’t updated my arch computer in 5 months).
I tried setting up two different distros
Would you mind telling what were the two distros you were trying to setup just for reference?
I installed Distro A, and Distro B, and you’re about to reply:
“Oh, well there’s your problem! A and B aren’t great for beginners (even though you read they were from someone else). I’d strongly recommend, C, D, E, or F.”
Whether it’s installing a new distro off new recommendations or spending time tinkering to get one of them working right, it’s still the same annoyance, and it’s unlikely to change. That said, if you have read that and will restrain from jabbing back about it or are just genuinely curious:
Distros
Linux Mint 21, then Linux Mint 22, then Bazzite
Ehhh…as a Linux beginner on Ubuntu I disagree… I spent a couple hours trying to get an AppImage application as a desktop icon.
Spent an additional hour or two to mount NAS drives. Fstab?? Wtf.
My secondary monitor flickers to black randomly for a just couple minutes after startup and there’s no way I’m going to dig through Wayland to figure out why. Monitor orientation is incorrect on startup and I again don’t want to dig through Wayland or whatever cfg file I need to open…yet.
Still needed to browse at least 5 different sources for answers.
I’m glad Firefox doesn’t crash at 500 tabs or w/e but Linux still has issues with some primitive tasks that windows has well figured out.
🤔not sure if it is true frustration or just a great meme
True, even user-friendly Linux distros have their pain points. The real difference between Linux and corporate OS products is that you don’t periodically need a new version because of a product churn schedule.
It’s funny because as somebody that’s been using Linux full-time for over 10 years I actually really really really really hate that Ubuntu is considered beginner friendly because I often find very very simple tasks incredibly frustrating on it.
I know that everybody disagrees with me but I genuinely think that something based on arch like Endeavor OS is genuinely more beginner friendly. You don’t have to fight with repositories to get up to date drivers, virtually any piece of software you could ever want is either already in the extra/community repo or available through the Aur. And while yes it is possible that an update could end up causing an issue on your system Pac-Man is just way way better about not completely destroying the system and it is pretty easy to roll back. Even in a really really bad worst case scenario booting from a live USB and rolling back with chroot is easy enough I’ve actually walked people through it before.
Meanwhile the amount of times on both Debian and Ubuntu that I have had apt completely eviscerate a system just trying to do basic updates and then just bail out Midway leaving the system so broken that the terminal barely functions anymore is frustrating. And there’s no particularly easy path to fixing that because dpkg is a fucking nightmare. Yes in the majority of those cases the system was multiple years out of date but that’s no excuse I have updated art systems that were upwards of almost 10 years out of date and other than me having to manually update the key ring and reinitialize the signatures it was able to Simply jump right to the latest just fine.
English hard, apparently.
I fucking hate this thing that’s becoming more and more common. Obvious bad grammar and spelling mistakes in memes like this, it’s become the rule rather than the exception in just the past year. And I’m certain it’s rarely not done on purpose, it’s the same with post and video titles both here, reddit, youtube etc. It gets clicks and comments and people fucking suck so they do it with no shame.
Some people make mistakes when typing and miss them while proofreading and sometimes people aren’t native English speakers.
If I may ask, which spelling mistakes caught your eye specifically?
Maybe “just to notice”
But I’m not a native speaker so beware!
Recently I have problem with high you and cpu usage, mainly GPU(GeForce 1060). Trying to troubleshoot it and updating drivers but so far it’s still doing it with game that shouldn’t be that demanding (timber born). So I’m debating switching completely to Linux already have Linux mint on second drive but remember having problems with the GPU drivers too. So while I like the simplicity and not bloated os not sure I want to troubleshoot other stuff and learning new os and using command line. I’m still very much noob with Linux so just want to ideally set it and for it just work and occasionally update without stuff breaking. -just a bit of rant about deciding, sorry if it doesn’t belong here.
There is Bazzite which is setup for gaming, and has ISOs specific to hardware type
And yet still manages graphical corruption from sleep, and input lag in games on a tailor-built ISO!
Just make them install Arch, I did just fine…
Why not Gentoo?
Because debian.
Same, but normies wont bother to RTFM
The wiki is great for those, who have some experience in Linux, not so for beginners.
The wiki is actually good for beginners, too. As you are often forced to reallylly read through subpages and cross-referenced topics until you somewhat understand why you are doing something instead of just how. Doesn’t make it easy ofc but a beginner can totally handle the wiki, it just takes more time.
Yeah, this has more or less sold me on giving arch a shot in the near future. I really need to get some fundamental Linux knowledge under my belt, and the arch wiki is legendary for being pretty comprehensive.
I may get stabbed for this but, go for Endeavour, unless a (probably needlessly) tedious install process is important to you.
I had vanilla Arch up and running for a bit but kept having issues with Steam, so switched to Endeavour and haven’t had any issues since. Its still a pretty basic version of Arch, with a few minor QoL improvements like having yay and a DE already installed.
It isnt that hard, moved from wondows 10 to mint, and a few months later to arch, and it took me less than 2 hours to install arch, and thats with slow internet.
And i learned a lot whole doing it, like Dekstop environments, disk partitoning(root, swap, and boot), filesystems, and a lot more.
I wouldnt recommend it to everyone, but it is great if you want to learn more about computers.
I installed black arch once, even my right click was weird
Actually Windows is much more convenient to use, if you just log-in everywhere and use it as a “normal human”. The thing is we don’t like companies taking our lifes, we demand freedom, thats why windows is a hell for us, but for most its convenient.
But a huge part is conditioning because people are forced to use Windows early and get used to it.
I have made the exact same “oh, this just works and is quite intuitive and convenient”-experience with Linux installs… for people lacking that prior forced contact with Windows (say older relatives with their first PC for example…).
Yeah, but when linux fucks up, you are screwed, you need to have some technical knowledge or smart friend to fix it, and in windows its often just restart
In my experience the fuck ups on the level where you need technical help are more in line with a “just freshly reinstall Windows yet another time”-scenario
