Image text: “Fact: 90% of Linux users switch back to windows right before all their problems are about to be fixed”
Lol, putting the worst documented distro on the planet on the table is interesting. The majority of people new to linux would switch back to windows within minutes if they had to install and use nixOS.
NixOS isn’t bad but your right it could be explained better.
In terms of stability and packages, it’s an amazing OS. Gone are the days of being afraid that of updates or system upgrades that might leave your system borked. Unless you’re experimenting with filesystems and boot parameters, it’s not straightforward to fuck things up.
On the flipside, by Linus is it difficult to get things working as a beginner. Good luck packaging new stuff, good luck creating new options, good luck cross-compiling, good luck configuring stuff with hardcoded config paths in
/var/or whatever, actually good luck understanding how to configure existing packages, good luck getting any kind of PR merged without the say-so of a chosen few, good luck changing anything in the community without getting past the gatekeepers, and have fun understanding why some random package is being installed and/or compiled when you switch to a new configuration.Good luck packaging new stuff
Packaging is generally hard on any distro.
Compared to a traditional distro, the packaging difficulty distribution is quite skewed with Nix though as packages that follow common conventions are quite a lot easier to package due to the abstractions Nixpkgs has built for said conventions while some packages are near impossible to package due to the unique constraints Nix (rightfully) enforces.
good luck creating new options
Creating options is really simple actually. Had I known you could do that earlier, I would have done so when I was starting out.
Creating good options APIs is an art to be mastered but you don’t need to do that to get something going.
good luck cross-compiling
Have you ever tried cross-compiling on a traditional distro? Cross-compiling using Nixpkgs is quite easy in comparison.
actually good luck understanding how to configure existing packages
Yeah, no way to do so other than to read the source.
It’s usually quite understandable without knowing the exact details though; just look at the function arguments.
Also beats having no option to configure packages at all. Good luck slightly modifying an Arch package. It has no abstractions for this whatsoever; you have to copy and edit the source. Oh and you need to keep it up to date yourself too.
Gentoo-like standardised flags would be great and are being worked on.
good luck getting any kind of PR merged without the say-so of a chosen few
Hi, one of the “chosen few” here: That’s a security feature.
Not a particularly good one, mind you, but a security feature nonetheless.
There’s also now a merge bot now running in the wild allowing maintainers of packages to merge automatic updates on their maintained packages though which alleviates this a bit.
have fun understanding why some random package is being installed and/or compiled when you switch to a new configuration.
It can be mysterious sometimes but once you know the tools, you can directly introspect the dependency tree that is core to the concept of Nix and figure out exactly what’s happening.
I’m not aware of the existence of any such tools in traditional distros though. What do you do on i.e. Arch if your hourly shot of
-Syugoes off and fetches some package you’ve never seen before due to an update to some other package? Manually look at PKGBUILDs?
This is true, I wanted to play a game and it looked broken in Linux. When I went back to Windows I discovered that it was a problem with the game. Then I went back to Linux and it ran better than it did in Windows.
Typical Ubisoft experience.
Me delaying the fix to my Linux problems by never switching back to Windows
One does not simply “switch back”. Anyone that stops using Linux was never converted from M$ or A₽₱£€ in the first place, and either was briefly testing it and it didn’t work out for them, trying it under duress and it didn’t work out for them, or trying it to sound less obviously lying or decades out if date when talking it down. Real Linux users only convert others, or tell you it’s actually GNU/Linux, or make sure new users trying out Mint use Debian edition. Real Linux users would use a separate partition or computer for anything that absolutely requires windows that they are unable to part with, even though it can be a pain and windows will periodically try to replace your multi os friendly bootloader with it is own.
“Fact: 95% of Linux users switched back to Windows95 right before all their problems are about to be fixed” A.D. 1999
- Seriously though a few years ago Microsoft launched their own Linux distributions. You’d think it would be smooth sailing now, no ?
D I S T R O H O P P I N G
To
T E M P L E
If you really want to run Linux : Distro hop
If you are not happy, then try a few more distros.
Temple or nothing
I’ve not distro hopped in ages, ever since I found my one true love arch btw
ill never get sick of this meme format lol so funny
That is why dual boot is based.
I am never going to install linux on my gaming pc. It is too much work if you are into multiplayer/live service games. Windows just works if you uninstall all the ms crap.
you dropped this “/s” somewhere along the line
Windows just works if you uninstall all the ms crap.
That would leave you without an operating system tho.
Windows just works if you uninstall all the ms crap.
Does Windows count as “ms crap” ?
This is lemmy linux community, people here won’t accept windows is a great os without the microsoft bloatware.
I somewhat get the stance some have against Windows. I myself aren’t to fond of Windows anymore and I’ll gladly doge it (and its company) at every chance I get.
HOWEVER, I understand that there’s software or even hardware that won’t and likely will never work on any other OS but Windows (even if it’s only through market dominance).
If ones use case is primarely for multi-player gaming then Windows (for most of these games) is the go to as for that aspect it offers the less painful way.
Could some of those games be made to run on Linux? Sure but it’s likely gonna be a pain all the way through (and will likely break with the next patch).
Some might answer with “to avoid those games then”, but realistically, many want to enjoy these titles, and they have every right to do so.
TLDR: Windows is good at certain tasks, Linux is good at certain tasks. Use the tool that that fits your use case (tasks) the best, but still look over to the other side every onece in a while.
The worst web browser ever, period, is still embedded into the system to this day and the entire OS will collapse if you manage to delete. Just an example; without the bloat you literally wouldn’t have any OS left (except, ironically, some unix components).
That said, I agree with you, no OS is great compared with windows lol
I removed my edge browser without deleting webview2. If you use random internet scripts it will remove webview2 which is required by many apps and games. My current windows 11 install have no problems with edge uninstalled the proper way without removing webview2.
Pretty sure that 90% of Linux users don’t switch to Windows.
I still boot to windows every now and then to play games. But each time windows painfully reminds me why I hate it
I have never liked Windows. Unix workstations or linux pretty much since the mid 80’s. My current pet peeve is companies that block email clients except Outlook from connecting to their mail server (Exchange).
I thought it meant 90% of the ones switching to windows
That’s what I had in mind
What did this say before the edit?
Fact: 90% of gambling addicts quit right before they’re about to hit it big
Every child should be introduced to linux. Will help them understand better they don’t need to be treated as products and certainly make them more computer literate, and hopefully more security conscious.
But to be honest, not every child is technologically-inclined. Most are just gonna get annoyed and hate it. This is not a good idea.
I’d have loved it as a child though
Something like Linux Mint is very easy to use and doesn’t require much maintenance. You don’t need to reformat every year or two either when Windows inevitably shits itself.
I use arch btw
Linux mint shares all the flaws that are common to every Linux distro
My point is Linux doesn’t have to be hard to use. You are going out of your way and making things difficult when using something like Arch Linux.
I’m not undermining your point in the first sentence, I was just saying that I use arch, btw
Linux mint shares a few ubuntu bugs, and even if you use LMDE someone like a child cannot understand the essence of linux in a controlled environment.
I’ll repeat. You cannot teach linux in a controlled environment to a child.
I’ve heard of cases where parents are putting kids in front of linux recently!
They are windows illiterate i think is what the kids posted.
Yeah, that’s nice to hear.
But that’s not necessarily a controlled environment.
Yes you can! What do you think a Chromebook is or an Android tablet. Modern Linux is quite easy to use, in some areas easier than modern Windows. This is especially true if you have the kind of children who get viruses all the time.
Oh awesome. Leave it to lemmy to be pedantic.
I obviously meant normal linux distros when I referred to linux. Not chromebooks or android.
Also, using those is in no way the same as learning linux. In a chrome book you’ll just be using a browser. In a phone, all the apps are locked down and you have no access to cli.
Dude he said “introduced”, not forced to learn it well enough to duel Torvalds on the mailing lists.
Was introduced as a teen. Recently even looked back at my book from the times and it had a whole goddamn chapter with linux propaganda.
Hated it. Felt like high maintenance windows. No reason to even get near. Also, hated it doubly because nobody asked.
Best way would be to switch school computers to linux. That way there’s no active part - it’s here, you have to use it anyway, deal with it. Then you can taste it neutrally, and it becomes just a quirk. Quirk some may like.
Linux doesn’t have to be high maintenance though. Definitely not more high maintenance than Windows for basic use cases.
It doesn’t have to, but for most users on the level of teens/kids it is. You wanna do something in windows? Done. Just done. No problems whatsoever, most devs bend over backwards for compatibility. Meanwhile finding shit for linux is pain. Most things you heard of are not even there. You have to go through weird apps just to run things you’re used to, and meanwhile OS asks weird questions like which graphic driver to install,
Linux changed a whole lot from the time I was introduced to it, and it became reaaaaally close to being as easy to use as windows. Hell, I even was considering switching to Mint some time ago ( Then bricked my boot. Thrice. And it’s not fault of Linux. I think. ). I like how it looks and feels, and with proton and stuff it’s best time to do so but it still isn’t on the same level of being non-problematic as windows.
Edit: Cannot talk about Win 11. Touched it once. If I need to upgrade, fuck that, going linux. Not worth it. At all.
Not really most detect the graphics card automatically, unless you are on Nvidia in which case you probably built the thing anyway or are a PC gamer which would know that anyway.
Windows isn’t as easy to use and tends to break if given to the computer illiterate from viruses, not doing updates, not rebooting, and so on. I’ve dealt with these kinds of people, they are better off with Linux Mint, ChromeOS, or similar as it doesn’t have these issues. If you are talking about mac then yeah it’s easier, you have an argument there. I would point out as well that most of the easy to use devices run Linux, like Android and ChromeOS devices.
Windows 11 is the new default, so that’s what we are comparing to here.
Dual boots on a single drive and EFI partition are expected to break at this point. This is because Microsoft like to overwrite the Linux boot loader. You should use a separate drive or at least a different EFI partition. REFIND can be helpful too. Dual boots have always been an advanced use case though.
Most people who don’t know their stuff uses nvidia. Happily slowly changing, but nvidia is everywhere, at least where I live. And people who don’t know stuff still hold onto “green good, red hot and bad”.
How do you break Windows except by downloading malware? It literally hides, or rather masquarades it’s settings from you and makes it hard to do anything bad to it. My grandpa uses Windows - I thought about introducing him to linux to breathe second life into his PC but…I doubt he would be able to do much with it. I cede point towards Android.
How is Win 11 new default? I may be out of the loop, but is it now majorly used? If so, I cede all because the only time I tried to use it, goddamn first-time registration died on me. Like, fully. Unfixable. What a mess.
And yeah, again, the boot bricking isn’t on linux it’s just me being an idiot. Also I love how fast you picked up how I broke the boot.
Check on EducaandOS. It’s my region’s school distro. It was absolute crap around 15 years ago, when they launched (names Guadalinex Edu), but it was preinstalled in school laptops so we learned to use it.
Right now it’s pretty decent and simple enough to just throw it into a kid’s computer, but sadly nobody gives a fuck about it. It would be so cool if more institutions tried to pull projects like this
I need to dual boot Windows for my stupid Xbox games and stupid Office that don’t run in Wine. 😭
So you just like MS Office?
I actually do but I’m slowly getting used to LibreOffice 🙂
Btw, you can choose something Ribbon-like or tabs in view > user interface (or similiar, it’s Benutzeroberfläche hier).
I know you probably mean newer Xbox games, but check out xemu if you like retro titles.
I mean, if you duel boot, it’s just a matter of time until Windows nukes your other OS. At least with me, my Linux was about to solve world peace, but Windows got wind of that and shut it the fuck down.
Meme is correct, they’re coming for you.
I almost wanted to correct you and say its dual not duel, but when I think about it windows will fight to be the only bootloader right when you think its finally behaving.
Wanted to say the same: the typo made the comment better. There has to be a community for this.
I have never had this issue on Mint/Windows duel boot
- yet
I have been running it for at least 6 months if not longer. So , I think that’s a valid sample size
Reminded me how Windows would set the hardware clock to different timezone that Linux uses, can’t remember which.
It would make my blood boil, that’s when I decided to never boot it again. 100% Linux everywhere, I get it on routers when I can.
Windows sets the hardware clock to local time, Linux sets it to UTC. It’s possible to tell one to respect the others preference
So that’s why windows always has the wrong time after I’ve been in my Linux install…
I will never expect Windows to respect any preference. Updates burnt me too many times.
Linux for life.
Linux for life.
Then you’re clearly not dual booting and this advice wasn’t for you
Not anymore I’m not, you are correct.
Also wrote that earlier.
Windows basically never nukes the actual linux install. It DOES like breaking the bootloader though. Which is fixable but still deeply annoying.
Ah damn this is exactly what happened a few days ago. My popos boot entry suddenly disappeared. I can still just boot from the physical ssd it’s installed on, but I found it strange it just pooped out somehow. Any pointers on how to fix it?
Here’s an article on how to fix it.
TLDR: You need to boot from a live disk, mount your install and reinstall the bootloader.
