My crippled kernel count is around 6, how about yours?
Maybe 1 or 2 back when things were less stable, but any time I have used Linux in the past 7 years or so, and particularly since I started using Debian as my primary OS, I haven’t had any problems outside of trying to get some windows applications to emulate correctly, and one time when I echo’d into sources.list with > instead of >>. Anything else is just stuff I had to learn, like my boot partition filling up with old images that have to be cleaned out occasionally.
If you want shit to just work when you want and stay out the way when you aren’t using it. Debian of whatever source is what they call stability. I’ve done rolling, and bleeding edge. It’s all a constant pain. Becomes a job to maintain or bug track or check logs. I’ll never go back.
I tried to use dd with too much hubris once. I had to restore from backups (which ironically, I had made with dd). I’m usually overly cautious, but I was in a hurry.
I did this one a few weeks ago lmao. You think once would be enough. But I am a truly special being.
No no no! When you break something in Linux systems you fix it. Starting over and reinstalling everything is what you do when you mess up on Windows.
Funny I did not expect so many people that resist starting over. Next time I’ll give fixing stuff a shot :)
It is more about being lazy.
In most cases, where you havn’t destroyed your filesystem, you can just boot another Linux from a USB stick, mount your filesystems to /mnt, chroot into it, and then investigate and fix there.
See the Archlinux wiki, even if you do not use Archlinux, it is great: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Chroot
Generally yes. My exception was the time i accidentally nuked python in it’s entirety…
Well, that could have been fixed by booting from an usb stick, chrooting into you real system and either downloading and (re)installing the python package this way, or, if your package manager depends on python, download the package in the Live Linux and extracting the python package into your system, and then reinstalling it, so the package management overwrites your “manual installation”.
Could be tedious, but less so that having to reinstall everything IMO.
OpenSuse Tumbleweed helps because you can create a btrfs snapshot at any moment and then roll back to it if you get in trouble. And it does this automatically whenever you update the packages.
👍 never had to start over
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed Gang. The only distro I haven’t been able to break after 6 months (well, I have, but I’ve been able to snapper rollback every time)
It’s the first rolling distro I have tried, and I’ve been running it for about 3 years now without any real problems. I think maybe twice there have been updates that cause issues, out of hundreds of updates per week. It’s surprisingly solid, and everything’s up to date.
Not everyone would want hundreds of updates per week of course, but it’s up to the user to decide how often to install updates. Unlike Windows, the updates don’t intrude, and they are fast.
It seems to hit that right balance of bleeding edge while SUSE are still testing the packages for a bit to ensure there aren’t bad updates. Fedora sounds interesting to me as well, but I’m not going to fix what isn’t broken.
Been looking for a DR system for Ubuntu or mint, need to look into it myself but would like some feedback if this could be the right ticket.
I just bought a raspberry pi 4 to host plex, I’m sure I could get it to do backup and restore too. Looking into it
Another big part is learning how to set it up in a way that it’s functional and productive the first time and then STOP FUCKING WITH IT.
That also sounds like a good way to stop learning!
Not quite. But sorta, yeah.
Learning to “not fuck with it” or ways to do so and rollback are valid lessons themselves.
Being able to segregate “production” and “development” environments is very valuable.
Being able to segregate “production” and “development” environments is very valuable.
This is a best practice that pretty much everyone, eventually, discovers on their own.
you can either have a system to learn on, or a stable system to work on.
Recently I accidently deleted the contents of /boot/ on my first arch install. The lesson that followed was something I would have rather saved for later ^^
I think we are using linux very differently. Mine is two and one of those was a dead ssd.
… So what should I try Linux again?
You mean why? Because you’re using your bare machine, you can use it as you wish. No nanny software limiting the fun or productivity
Yeah but breaking like six computers to do it, or one computer six times, seems like a pretty steep price for that when I basically just use my computer for gaming browsing and the occasional audio/video edit.
OP said breaking the kernel, not the machine. The computers would be fine, its pretty damn difficult to brick a computer using software, at least by accident.
Normal users will not break their kernel, op is likely doing some advanced tinkering. I have been using Linux for years and am definitely an advanced user and Ive broken my kernel zero times.
Nah, if you’re installing something user friendly (ie Linux Mint just for an example) it’ll work 1st time, guaranteed - or your money back.
But… you’ll only really learn once you’ve fubar’d something… just like
falling offriding a bikeI want double my money back if the free program doesn’t work!
I remember managing to install two DE one above the other, and having them, somehow working at the exact same time. That was trippy.
I didn’t even know how I did it. I’m pretty sure that I couldn’t replicate that on purpose.
Uhm, zero? With ten years of using Linux? What did you do to fuck up the damn kernel? o_O
It can be done if you mess with the initramfs.
The kernel starts everything else by unpacking an archive containing a minimal environment to set stuff up for later. Such as loading needed kernel modules, decrypting your drive, etc. It then launches, by default, the /init program (mines a shell script).
That program is PID 1. If it dies, your kernel will panic.
After it finishes setup, it execs your actual /sbin/init. These means it dies, and that program (systemd, openrc, dinit, runit, etc) becomes PID 1. If an issue happens, both could fail to execute and the kernel will loop forever.
Thank you for explanation :) I suspected something like that - mess up with some internals, you do have a chance to bring the thing down. Which is why I always have a bootable usb around before doing anything risky
It’s the same as learning anything, really. A big part of learning to draw is making thousands of bad drawings. A big part of learning DIY skills is not being afraid to cut a hole in the wall. Plan to screw up. Take your time, be patient with yourself, and read ahead so none of the potential screw-ups hurt you. Don’t be afraid to look foolish, reality is absurd, it’s fine.
We give children largess to fail because they have everything to learn. Then, as adults, we don’t give ourselves permission to fail. But why should we be any better than children at new things? Many adults have forgotten how fraught the process of learning new skills is and when they fail they get scared and frustrated and quit. That’s just how learning feels. Kids cry a lot. Puttering around on a spare computer is an extremely safe way to become reacquainted with that feeling and that will serve you well even if you decide you don’t like Linux and never touch it again. Worst case you fucked up an old laptop that was collecting dust. That is way better than cutting a hole in the wall and hitting a pipe.
See that would be a good analogy if the fail was fun.
Making a shit painting is still fun.
Having to reinstall my OS because I ran pacman -Syu and now my computer won’t boot, and now I have to spend hours making things work again: not at all fun.
Having my server run out of memory and freeze up instead of having a sane out of memory behavior the day before a long trip: not fun
It’s also archaic, niche information. Do I want to learn how to make a kernel version that didn’t get installed right show up in grub? Fuck no. Do I want to google for the 100th time what command exists to register the encryption key for my hard drive in the TPM? Fuck no. What an absolute waste of life.
Linux isn’t “I cut a hole in my wall” it’s “my electrician only documented the wiring in hieroglyphs and now I have to reverse engineer everything to turn on a light bulb”.
So this is why I’m bad at drawing. I have 954 more drawings to go!
Unbootable systems in the dozens. I think I’ve only fucked up the kernel itself a few times. But grub or other bootloader tons, desktop environment tons, and getting into states so broken the only readily available option was reinstall, dozens. Thankfully most of these were right after a fresh install. For example dual booting just doesn’t work right for some OS installers and grub fails. Manjaro bricked itself after an update. Etc. etc.
I haven’t majorly fucked up any recent systems (almost botched the steam deck once or twice but nothing that required a reinstall), but god 10 years ago I probably reset my arch dual boot like five times lmao
May I introduce you to my lord and saviour NixOS?
Knock Knock Knock.
We (Jehovah’s Witness) would like to know if you had a minute, so we could come inside, and talk to you about OUR Lord and Savior… Linux Mint.
I just spent 11 days on a dual boot repair in fstab, passwd, loads of ecryptfs, amongst other boot and login issues. Before restoring from the full system backup after getting mad to finally want to use my PC. 11 fucking days almost all day in terminal. TOO many partitions and too many folders inside of folders to get to my ecryptfs files. I got so lost LSing around.
After it all though, and it was an aneurism and a half. I still want to finish my goal and reinstall my dual boot this time correctly aiming the folders correctly.
