I’ve been using linux for ~2 years now and only know one of these (GUI installer), anyone smarter than me can explain what they are?
Systemd is an init system (the first process that manages/runs everything else). However it does far more than a traditional init system; arguably it’s tendrils are all over mainstream Linux now.
GLIBC is the GNU Project’s implementation of the C standard library. It is a wrapper around system calls of the kernel for application use.
To be fair, I don’t think systemd is classified as just an init system anymore. It’s a software suite that just “conveniently” happened to have an init system included.
Because I left Windows precisely to avoid the kind of shittery that systemd is doing.
It’s absolutely no coincidence that the people who have developed the stuff that’s brought the most degradation to Linux - systemd, PulseAudio, Gnome’s “user has no right to themes” attitude - all come from a Microsoft background or explicitly work for Microsoft.
I’d have far less of a problem if systemd was split into more practical, actually independent things that actually worked and distros didn’t buy their snake oil so easily. But for the time being, to me, the systemd experience is pretty much like the PulseAudio experience, what with the whole “waiting 120 seconds for a network interface to activate that it’s not going to because it’s the damn ethernet port and I’m on the road so the cable is not connected, stupid letter-potter dipshit”.
Its just easier for me to dualboot windows. Im too dumb to find how to do it with systemd :p
That is systemd-boot, which is separate. You should use refind anyways
Aren’t you talking about systemd-boot which is optional anyway? systemd covers the Linux init process which should have nothing to do with dual booting, no?
Ehh, probably. I didnt really check what systemd is
At this point i don’t care anymore if my system has systemd or whatever, as long it’s works i don’t have complaint
Maybe back when I’m still young i will agree with majority linux enthusiasm that systemd is bloat, GUI is bloat, or whatever. But now as long it’s work & can do job properly i don’t care or even careBtw I’m using Garuda Linux for my daily drive
Life is bloat.
Jokes aside, GUI really is bloat. Especially when it’s made by a corporate company with absolute dogshit development practices.
On a more serious note, systemd is bloat. With all of you new kids coming over to this side, start with the right way: the runit way. Also compile Gentoo whilst you’re at it.
Obligatory /s if anyone is offended, you bunch of snowflakes
/s is bloat, say it like you mean it!
I would, but I’m 2 years old and care about attention on Lemmy. I got downvoted already.
Maybe votes are bloat. I need to change my mentality
I like how simple and fast runit is. And the added security is nice.
For a while I had an Asus laptop, and no matter what, it seemed to not want to work properly with systemd-based distros. It would hang on-boot about 95+% of the time, I’d hard shut-off, restart, repeat.
On a whim, I tried Void Linux (runit) on it. And for whatever reason, it worked.
I had to debug dns issues with a wm. Was disgusted what Systemd all does what it shouldn’t.
Musl was fine until i had to install the one blob most people hate and love, Steam.
Systemd is nice, but it touches way too much IMO. Like, why does it need to touch DNS?
systemd-resolved is an independent binary and entirely optional, just developed by the same project.
That said, it’s good. Supported DoT and DNSSEC early, easy to configure. No complaints for simple usage.
and entirely optional
In.the sense that it is usually delivered with all the other optional modules, and for alternatives or the old default you would need a bunch of shims and wrappers.
And it does proper split DNS by default, using the search domains of each interface. That way you can configure a global DNS resolver while still being able to resolve local hostnames and without leaking other queries. I just hope they’ll also add DoH support, which is less likely to be blocked on a corporate network.
Because they can.
Me using runit, I agree
For the good of all of us
Except the ones who are dead
But there’s no sense crying after every mistake.
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake.
And the science gets done, and you made a neat distro.
For the people who are using linux.
- OpenRC just feels nice
- Runit is simple
- S6 is really fucking fast
- Some distros (e.g. Guix, Void, Gentoo) come with non-systemd init systems by default, but I use them for other reasons
As for why I sometimes use musl, I like BSD. Also, Alpine Linux uses it by default, and most glibc software I’ve tried works just fine with gcompat.
More Code in Kernel-space = less secure
Systemd = a lot of Code in Kernel-space
There’s no kernel-space code in systemd.
Right, sorry, i just watched a documentary about anti-cheat.
But it still runs with elevated peivileges, which i don’t really like
So does sysvinit. PID 1 has to be root to do its job. Under sysvinit it is the responsibility of each daemon to drop privileges on their own if they wish to do so.
Systemd can handle your services such that they start unprivileged from the get go. It also offers a lot of isolation by default with options like PrivateTmp, ProtectHome, ProtectSystem powered by cgroups. It can effectively run your services like they’re in a Docker container if you want.
A lot of systemd also runs as separate services with their own user as well. Only the core init part really runs as root, it prefers to drop privilges and apply cgroup isolation wherever it makes sense to do so. The logger for example runs as systemd-journald, the DNS resolver runs as systemd-resolved. They’re part of the systemd package but far from all of it runs as root. Systemd can even do certain privileged operations so that the service can run with less privileges such as binding port 80/443 for you so the web server doesn’t need root at all to run.
It also enables users to do certain operations without requiring elevating privileges with sudo, which in many cases can help not have to give sudo NOPASSWD specific commands because your web developers need to be able to restart the web server, you can just add a Polkit rule that allows restarting that service without privileges. Systemd is all D-Bus, so you can control access at a very granular level. You can grant only start and reload if you want.
Sysvinit is just shell scripts running as root. There is no security whatsoever, it was never sysvinit’s job to secure the system. It’s mostly fine as all the tooling for it also requires root to use. But it does require root 100% of the time to interact with it.
There’s good reasons to prefer sysvinit, those are just common FUD systemd haters keep spreading. There’s no need to discredit or outright lie about systemd to justify preferring sysvinit: the simplicity of a few shell scripts and not needing 99% of what systemd does is a perfectly valid argument on its own.
I have boxes that use systemd very heavily and some that have a custom bash script as the init because the box only needs an IP and to start a single app. Right tool for the right job and stuff.
Right tool for the right job and stuff.
Right, same problem with the desktop “OS Wars”, I just don’t see the point. Personally, on any given day, I’m switching between all 3 major OS’s
eBPF: psst, wanna run your code directly in kernel?
Most of them think that they’re making a point about an argument their side lost almost a decade ago.
To which the other side replies with points outdated since the first other init/service manager aside from SysV and Systemd was invented.
Staying lean in my init is a hobby
People that complain about people not running systemd. Why does it bother you so much? :P
I’m wondering why people do things that don’t seem profitable from my point of view
Are you profiting from running systemd?
Does absence of problems count?
I’m not sure if it was related to systemd, but when I used void linux I had a strange sound problem that I never had on systemd distros, when I tried to change the volume level, it returned to its original level, I tried to find solution but I didn’t found because void linux isn’t very popular distro, and probably only I had this problem
This doesn’t sound like a non-systemd problem, more likely something related to Void.
Dunno…
Wanna ask my OpenWRT router that?
Also, is Android not Linux anymore?
Hate to be that guy, but all those articles are 5 years or older. Have people had more recent complaints about systemd or did that movement that complains about it kinda move on?
People don’t need more recent complaints when those complaints are still relevant today.
My initial experience with Linux was without systemD and I didn’t like it when Debian switched to it. Void is comfy enough.
