Linux mint and pop os are winner so far
Na Bazzite and Fedora
I stopped using windows while using Win XP, maybe 16 or 17 years ago. When I try using current windows I become useless, I can barely figure out how to use it.
That’s how I feel when I use Linux or MacOS
I used windows for over 10 years, I just feel like its changed a lot since I last used it, to where I barely recognize it.
Opposite for me. Windows 8 was the big change for me haha.
I didn’t pay much attention to the changes after XP. Next thing I saw (years later) was the win version with flipping windows all over the place, that worked more like a cell phone. I was totally lost. Anytime I’ve used windows at a job, they were always using older versions that I could figure out.
Too bad, only 1 out of my approx. 150 customers have their IT dept. using Linux as server during my 6 years in - the rest of it is Windows… all the users have either Windows 10, 11 or they use Apple.
Halp.
Edit: not counting the educational users, as they come in hordes
I know, most businesses only use windows. Its like they got stuck with it, and are afraid to leave.
Laughs in rolling release
laughs in kernel panics
I’m running nixos unstable. I did get some panics while hibernating with one kernel version, but otherwise it’s been super stable.
Enabling threadedirqs (real-time feature) on the kernel command line does make the kernel panic on boot though.
I swapped from Windows 10 specifically because I didn’t want to be in the Windows 11 and forward environment. (I use Arch btw)
I really don’t regret it, the set up was really painful but once that was done, the KDE had so many good features that I immediately felt at home. I’m floored by how good Proton/Steam is at handling games, I don’t think I’ve had to skip on any game due to my OS (so far).
CachyOS?
I’m on good ol’ Arch Linux with plasma KDE
You’re a better man than I. I just dipped my toes in Arch by going with CachyOS.
Hey chad, I hadn’t heard of CachyOS until you brought it up, good on you for finding an OS that matches your needs and going for it
This is gonna be an unpopular opinion here but telling people who have used Windows their entire lives to just switch to Linux as if it’s that easy is entirely unhelpful and makes the Linux community look elitist and out of touch.
I think I understand your broader point as saying that a switch to Linux being as simple as switching from Coors to Miller is underselling the fact that Linux is a fairly different environment/ecosystem. You’re right on that. But as someone who’s made a switch to Linux (Ubuntu) after a lifetime of other OS use, I have to say that I think it’s worth it, even with the learning curve.
I have been exclusively a Mac user and Apple cultist for at least twenty years now and only knew Windows (3.0-ME) prior to that. I have a few 2011 Intel Macs that I use for work and home exclusively (two of which were hand-me-downs) and have not been receiving updates for awhile now. I’m not in the financial position to buy a new computer and I randomly read that Ubuntu runs great on these old Macs. So I decided to give it a try. It was a bit of work that was bolstered by the fact that I do have a bit more computer know-how than the average person (but nowhere near most of the people I see on the Fediverse). But I’ve come to love it and am now working my way over to this being a permanent change.
I’m only sharing this as an example that even deeply entrenched people can learn to use this stuff. And I was a Mac guy! Apple holds your hands and does so much thinking for you! I’d think with Windows, the switch over to something like Mint would be fairly easy, given the GUI (I specifically chose Ubuntu over Mint because Mint’s GUI is described as “Windows-like” and I personally hate all things Microsoft—which is definitely a “me problem” lol—but I’m probably going to load it onto an older ThinkPad of my wife’s that we want to set up for our son).
Life is a long learning experience. Installing (or asking that nerdy relative to install) a Linux distro is no biggie anymore and when picking a good all-around distro like Mint, for example, pretty much anyone who has some basic experience on computers can do it.
I do agree that life is a learning experience, but I might say that you’re overestimating what “basic experience on computers” means, and I tend to find that this is fairly typical of people who have more advanced skills because this stuff is basic to us. But we can sometimes lack perspective in that regard.
Basic experience on computers for most people means “can use Office apps, can send emails, can more or less use the internet”. Essentially, they can use the computer for their work or for some light entertainment. It certainly doesn’t mean that they know how to or that they even can configure the BIOS to boot from a USB, or for that matter what the BIOS is or that it exists. It doesn’t mean that they can use the terminal, or use WINE to run their favourite Windows applications or troubleshoot an operating system that is entirely alien to them. I’d even go as far as to say that most people don’t even know what an operating system is - to them, Windows is the computer and they don’t know or care about anything different. This is the kind of person I’m talking about. Everything you said might as well be Ancient Greek to that person.
Relevant XKCD
I get it. That’s why I included the part about “the family tech guy”. And I think some sparkle of interest must be had in order to learn about that stuff. Or any stuff, like learning Ancient Greek. One has to be able to use a web search (or write a prompt to an LLM) for “beginner install linux” or some such. If the spark isn’t there, maybe buying a new Windows/Mac is the correct way to go.
To a newbie, Windows is just as alien as Linux. If someone has no computer experience, they have to learn Linux, Windows or Mac anyway. May as well get them started with the software that isn’t actively trying to invade their privacy and paste ads in their face.
A friend of mine was a console gamer and we convinced him to game on a PC.
We walked him through an Arch install, via the terminal and the wiki for his first build. I think it took 6 hours to get him to the point where he could reboot into a GUI. He broke something within a few days (an incompletely typed chmod -r command). Then we showed him EndevourOS’s installer and he was back up and running in about 2 hours.
He knows how to use the Arch wiki, he can enable Steam debugging in order to Google any errors that occur, he isn’t scared of the terminal (though he prefers a GUI if possible.
Previously he’d only ever used Windows to run Microsoft Office in a corporate environment. Now he has, on his own, installed a NAS with an ZFS array running Docker, Jellyfin, Sonarr, Radarr, etc. He doesn’t even have Windows installed (and would probably have a hard time learning it now)
Most people who are really against Linux are Windows users who have spent years learning Windows and don’t want to spend the time to learn something different. Sure, it takes some time, but the skill is well worth the time that it takes to develop.
I mean… they are out of touch. I’m sure its possible to have a pain free switch over but when I had trouble the advice was interspersed with quite a few caveats. In essence Linux is ‘easy to setup but…’ Still gonna try again though, also guys that laptop you all said was dying because linux made it crash is still working fine on windows with no sign of trouble.
It’s easier to use than Windows
Just give GUI troubleshooting instead of CLI
It’s easier to use than Windows
LOL, good one!
I especially loved the user friendliness of my distro randomly disconnecting my BT mouse and refusing to reconnect. Had to edit grub to get it back to working order.
Or how I changed the lock screen image through settings. Now I can see it - in Settings. Only. Because if I lock my device, I still see the old one.
Or how on Kubuntu, my previous distro, the applications’ menu (the one with “File”, “View”, “Help”, etc.) just disappeared from all apps. Spent two days trying to sort it out and ended up switching to Tuxedo OS.
Such an easy to use OS, especially for those who’ve never done one bit of troubleshooting themselves!
Spoken like someone who hasn’t had to troubleshoot Windows
Steps to troubleshoot Windows:
- Reboot, pray
- Google the error, if any
- Randomly change registry settings, delete files, install software on the advice of random Internet people/LLMs until the software works or the randomware kicks in.
- Thank god you’ve never had to touch a Linux terminal, clearly a fate worse than death.
- Reboot again, just in case
Looks fairly similar to what you would do on Linux. Change registry to config file (unless you’re using Gnome, then it’s both). You’re right though, on Windows, people don’t usually have paragraph long commands to paste into the terminal to fix some issue. Instead, on Windows you have Microsoft support posts where a “Microsoft Community Support” non-employee pastes non-helpful boilerplate tech support copypasta which are somewhat adjacent to the user’s issue.
Linux at least gives us useful logging and the software packages have documentation that is accessible without paying for a Microsoft Support contract.
The Linux community support can actually fix your problems without boilerplate copypasta and doesn’t cost anything but you’ll get the customer service that you pay for.
Linux at least gives us useful logging
Mate, don’t take it the wrong way, but you’re living in a fantasy world if you think an average user has any semblance of idea as to where logs are or how to read them.
The Linux community support can actually fix your problems without boilerplate copypasta
LOL, nice one! :D
I’ve read “just recompile the kernel” together with “just switch to [distro_x]” more times than I can count to… :D
Randomly change registry settings, delete files, install software on the advice of random Internet people/LLMs until the software works or the randomware kicks in.
See? Here’s your problem. You’re doing random stuff without understanding what it does or even without a guide. Try that on Linux and tell me how well your OS works. :)
In general, seems like you’ve been sheltered from Windows for the past, I don’t know, 15 years? In terms of reliability and stability, 10 and 11 are on par with MacOS.
Here’s the problem with sweeping statements on the Internet like the one you just did - you never know who you’re talking to.
You have no clue how hilarious your comment reads from the perspective of someone who’s worked in IT for the past 20 years. :D
Here’s the difference between Linux and Windows TODAY (that’s a CRITICAL point) - the average user gets the OS installed, fires it up and just uses it. If there’s a problem, a reboot will fix it 99% of the time. For that 1% there’s a bajillion different forums where they’ll find help.
Now, Linux? You install it, fire it up, and it runs without issues. Or it doesn’t! You use an app, and it works - or it doesn’t! You start searching for solutions online and find that the issue you’ve had has been resolved but on a different distro, things look different on yours and you have no clue how to proceed.
Windows is not a perfect OS, but it’s as good as it gets (next to MacOS) in terms of “I’m John, this is my first computer, I just learned how to log in and now I want to have some fun”. Linux is FAR from that, still.
Empirically, you are getting Windows and Linux mixed up
Also more end user devices are Linux than Windows
Linux is ideal for people who don’t want to spend all day troubleshooting and not getting anywhere. It’s for people who want things to just work without extra effort
Can’t compare to Mac personally
Empirically, you are getting Windows and Linux mixed up
I’m honestly not sure you understand what “empirically” means… But I might be wrong! Please elaborate!
Also more end user devices are Linux than Windows
Yes, nowadays especially, when people are trying to “stick it to the US”. Which doesn’t change the fact that most of these will return to Windows within 6 months, and even with them it’s still an insignificant minority compared to the hegemony of Windows and MacOS.
Linux is ideal for people who don’t want to spend all day troubleshooting and not getting anywhere
I’m sorry, WHAT?
It’s for people who want things to just work without extra effort
You have GOT TO be joking right now…
Please elaborate!
Through my own experiences not just what I’ve read. Constantly being asked to fix “Windows not working” and there never being any fixes found
stick it to the US”
Google and Valve are US companies so I don’t think people are sticking it to the US when they use their products
I’m sorry, WHAT?
Install and forget, the only issue I’ve had that isn’t a 5 minute fix is a broken pipe error on updates that doesn’t interfere with anything.
You have GOT TO be joking right now…
Have you tried either? Windows is always blue screening, black screening, or having apps freeze
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
Windows 11 is a shitty version of Windows, but it’s not Windows ME or Vista. It sucks because of the arbitrary CPU and TPM requirements, plus having AI forced into a user’s desktop. Not to mention Microsoft is dragging its feet fixing performance issues in Explorer.
It’s still very stable on good hardware with stable drivers. Point out the actual shit parts of Windows, not lazy callbacks to the days of Windows 98.
2080 ti and 128gb of ram - it is definitely not stable and unlike Linux isn’t ready out of the box
So you can afford 128GB of ram, a motherboard that can support that, a processor that can address that… and you’re running a 2080ti?
It’s such an odd configuration I wouldn’t be surprised if the Nvidia driver were causing the issue. Contrary to the concept of a “unified driver,” the code for your GPU probably hasn’t been touched by nvidia in a while. Either that, or maybe you’ve got all that hardware, but you’re running Windows 8 or something else odd.
W10/11
And yes the gpu needs an upgrade, but I don’t have a server in need of it yet so it stays in my personal computer
And on Linux it handles everything I need
You seem to be confused. We’re talking about an “OS for the masses”. What you’re talking about is so far beyond the “high end for the top tier enthusiasts” that it’s not even funny.
If Windows doesn’t work on that, then it’s not for the masses
It seems like a weird middle-ground that might be used in a weird 5 year old server. Probably not great for gaming. But I too had stability issues with all of my windows installations. (1.5 laptops, a prebuilt and later the machine I use now which I started using with windows) All of them had regular BSODs (though the laptops were a little older and might not always have been that way) and one pc even broke the Windows Bootloader so that I couldn’t boot it anymore.
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
It’s actually the opposite. Worked in IT for 20 years, had to troubleshoot every conceivable issue with Windows.
Here’s the difference: 90% of the time, once you’ve installed the OS, it’s smooth sailing*. If it’s not, reboot, and it will be fine. For the fringe cases, just search online to find help.
This last bit is what kills Linux as “user-friendly OS” - you have one distro, but solutions you find are for five different distros and each one looks and feels slightly differently, so things are in different places.
EDIT:
* I should’ve added: TODAY. It used to be VERY different, but these days? It’s mostly “fire and forget”.
I’ve also spent my fair share of time in IT. I can’t recall any common issue with the reliability of Windows in the enterprise. Single user issues that originally appeared to be an OS problem later turned out to be caused by hardware. Usually hard disks, though I did find a bad stick of RAM once.
The vast majority of issues I typically saw were application related, usually industry specific software. What I did come to hate was industry applications written to run on the Java Runtime environment. Especially when a user needed several different apps which were not all compatible with a common JRE version. There’s DLL hell, dependency hell, and then there’s JRE hell.
Windows never has issues, does it?
Not like that, it doesn’t.
I’ve never heard of someone using bcdedit to change a boot flag, so a Bluetooth adapter will behave.
The lock screen problem I’ve seen myself a while back. At least in my case, I did not have permissions to the session manager config file, and the gui tool did not account for that. But I think I had to install the tool from the repo. It wasn’t part of the base install.
The menu problem could be a Kubuntu or early plasma issue. Either way, not something I’ve ever seen in Windows.
For the most basic casual PC gamer SteamOS will be a game changer once they add more hardware support for it.
You mean Nvidia hardware. Nvidia purposefully sucks overall on Linux. Don’t reply with “mine works great” because you’re lying or haven’t had an issue yet. Fuck Nvidia.
This keeps getting brought up, but the reality is that there is nothing special about SteamOS 3. If people want a SteamOS-like OS (Immutable, Steam/Proton integrated, Steam Big Picture as Primary interface), then it already exists. Chimera, Bazzite, probably others. The only thing Valve could realistically improve on is the installation experience.
SteamOS’s only real advantage is that it is hardware restricted. Valve is able to test against a narrow field of hardware and insure a high degree of stability because of it.
Bazzite wants to say hello
So does Nobara.
I’m really curious what things people can’t get running or didn’t have good enough alternatives for in Linux? Obviously, if you are a professional in X field and you need a specific program that will not work on Linux for your job, then Linux is not for you at that job. You didn’t choose MS Win or MacOSX, the company that makes the software that you need to do your job made that choice for you.
If you are not a professional, and you pirate Adobe XYZ (or whatever), and feel like you must have it on Linux, and that GIMP or Krita (or whatever) are not good enough, I don’t know what to tell you. Ask yourself, if MS and Adobe found a way to require you to pay full price for that software, or you could not use it at all, would you pay? Or would GIMP or Krita (or whatever) suddenly be good enough? Is having that software (when you are not a professional) really a good reason to stay on an operating system with so many other drawbacks?
In my experience:
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MS Windows Explorer is crap. I ended up buying Directory Opus to get a decent file manager. Too many good ones to mention in Linux (though I admit, most are not as powerful as DO; maybe Dired in emacs comes closest?). (DO is awesome - if you are stuck on MS Windows, I highly recommend it.)
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KWallet (and similar security apps such as KeePassXC), the various clipboard apps, the various text editors, the media players, etc. are excellent in Linux and don’t have alternatives in MS Windows that are as good or as easy to install. Actually, I guess it comes down to the repositories having everything, and much of it being installed by default. (Of course, if you are just streaming stuff through your browser, media players matter much less.)
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The choice of window managers and desktop environments is a killer feature for Linux. MS Windows barely even has virtual desktops.
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I am not a graphics professional, so for me, GIMP and Krita are fine. And Inkscape. And Scribus. (And, for many people who are not me, LibreOffice Draw.)
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I do do a lot of writing. LaTeX (several types) and all supporting software is super helpful, but must be found and installed separately in MS Windows. Will pandoc run natively in MS Windows - you have to install python first, right? It is python, right? I’m not sure, because I didn’t need to worry about it when I installed it on Linux, from the repository. On MS Windows, you’ll probably have to worry about it.
Sure, as mentioned above, you can install many of those on MS Windows. Are they in the MS Windows store? Do you have to update them all individually each time there is an update? I don’t - they get updated when I update my system, along with the rest of my system.
One little observation sort of sums up the Linux / MS Windows debate for me: in LibreOffice, no matter which program I am using, I can open or create a new office file of any sort. Last time I used MS Office, you couldn’t create or open an MS Word file while in MS PowerPoint, nor the opposite. Instead, you had to open MS Word separately. MS Office is a ‘suite’ in name only. LibreOffice is a suite, designed to go together. Linux distros sort of feel like that too. MS Windows (last I used it), not so much.
(Obviously, I have feelings about this. Been using Linux since 1998, so yeah, feelings.)
edit: spelling error / typo
I just installed Mint on my gaming TV table. I’m currently struggling to install a driver that works with my displaylink adapter. I’m also having an issue with my VTT (Arkenforge) where it fails to update and crashes.
Welcome to the Linux experience :) Good luck, have fun!
Hahaha, thank you. To anyone wondering, I deleted the automatic updater out of the Wine directory and that has fixed the crashing, and I’ve given up on the driver for my USB to HDMI adapter and I’m going to just use VGA.
I knew there would be some growing pains, but I’m mostly surprised at how much stuff just works out of the gate, and how relatively easy it’s been.
Linux is the best OS. Thanks to Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds and the Linux community.
Plenty of video games that will not run on Linux simply because of stuff like anticheat. Like Apex Legends (ran fine for a while but got blocked again recently) and Valorant, just to name 2 I’m personally aware of that’s stopping some of my friends from going to Linux.
You can say that dual booting would fix that, and my bf actually does that, but that’s obviously not a workable solution to the vast majority of people.
As long as games like that won’t run on Linux it’s simply impossible for a lot of people to switch.
CoD, Fortnite, basically any major multiplayer games are case by case basis. While most of them have turned to microtransaction shit I thought others should know a few big names. Check out resources like Arewewanticheatyet and The protondb.
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LOL the suppliers I work with ONLY Support IE 6 to 9. If they could still get away with DOS and intranets they would.
I have to make the switch…
feel free to donate them to me, they work great as servers.
Linux is better than Windows.
Still very happy with Mint after a month and a half. Highly recommended!
Id run Linux if it could run the apps I need efficiently
use alternatives if possible
It’s not possible
What apps?
Ableton, FL Studio plus all the vsts I use. Plus all the adobe I use plus all the games I play that are windows only
All the games that I play are Windows-only too and they run just fine via Proton.
Yeah I don’t feel like running an emulation or a script to just play a game though. If I want to use Linux. I’ll use it on a laptop for web browsing. It’s a useless OS for me personally for every day life that has very little support from other companies.
Yeah I don’t feel like running an emulation or a script to just play a game though.
You open Steam, click Play, and the game launches.
The same as it does on Windows.
Linux has great DAWs, bridges for vsts, alternatives for Adobe software and tons of games. The issue is your unwillingness to try something new, which is fine, but that’s not a knock to Linux.
I’ve used gimp. I pay for Adobe. I paid for FL and Ableton and used them for over 10 years. Why would I switch?
This is very realistic and fair, I don’t subscribe to the ideologist out of touch bs personally even though I first compiled Gentoo 20 years ago.
I run Mac as my daily driver for convenience and stability but use the terminal for a ton of things and SSH into various Linux servers for my work. I run a VM in Parallels for the handful of apps which only work on windows, and generally avoid them unless they’re the only option.
Basically, what I’m saying is even if you’re dependent on some Windows only apps, you might find you have a better quality of life by making those the exception (running them in a VM) but using a more stable OS as the underlying OS.
Lots of comments about gaming from people assuming that companies will continue supporting their kernel anticheat on Windows 10 after it hits eol.
Windows 11 is much more convenient for identity tracking, so they’ll probably push for people to upgrade because Windows is too “insecure” for their games.
